Gordon Carrera

It's interesting in the intelligence world because you definitely feel like people say operationally things are still strong.

They're still going.

You hear that from the Brits and the others.

But you also think to yourself at some point if the political level and the diplomatic levels are diverging in how they see the world and what they want to do in the world, that's bound to eventually kind of feed back down into the working level.

There is that feeling that it's not going to go back, is it, quite to what it was, I guess, in the wider relationship, but maybe in that intelligence world.

Sean, I should also say, we went out to a military exercise, didn't we?

Shane, you missed this.

I missed it.

I know.

Maybe you knew better because it was a long, long way away.

A very long coach ride back in which we're eating nuts and crisps most of the way to try and sustain ourselves.

But I guess it was quite interesting, wasn't it, to see on the ground, you know, the Brits were there, the French were there, all working together.

So it feels like still at that level, the relationships are strong militarily and as we said, intelligence wise.

But it does feel like something's changing, isn't it?

That's the mood, I think.

Because it's that feeling that the Russians could try and test things and if they're going to test, they're already testing things with sabotage operations, but they could try and test things in the Baltics.

This is possibly where it could happen.

So, uh, I hope you enjoy, do you enjoy these conferences?

I mean, my, I'm not sure my liver always enjoys these conferences or my sleep patterns.

Cause I think you were here.