Gordon Carrera

But if you go back to that time, I mean, if you then talk to people now about what it was like in GCHQ, Britain's intelligence agency, I mean, there is blind panic. Ian Lobben, who was then the director, later said, when I heard the news, I lay awake saying to myself, I hope this isn't a Brit. Because they've realised they've got a leak. Some of it looks like it relates to Britain.

He's reported to have gone around colleagues asking, is anyone in your teams at GCHQ taking a long holiday? And I think meanwhile, in NSA as well, there's this kind of desperate panic as they realize their secrets are being unfurled. But what's interesting is that they are kind of narrowing it down and they're certainly kind of heading towards Snowden if they don't know it already at this point.

He's reported to have gone around colleagues asking, is anyone in your teams at GCHQ taking a long holiday? And I think meanwhile, in NSA as well, there's this kind of desperate panic as they realize their secrets are being unfurled. But what's interesting is that they are kind of narrowing it down and they're certainly kind of heading towards Snowden if they don't know it already at this point.

He's reported to have gone around colleagues asking, is anyone in your teams at GCHQ taking a long holiday? And I think meanwhile, in NSA as well, there's this kind of desperate panic as they realize their secrets are being unfurled. But what's interesting is that they are kind of narrowing it down and they're certainly kind of heading towards Snowden if they don't know it already at this point.

Typically, someone who'd done this would keep themselves secret. But luckily, he's a massive narcissist with a... Massive ego. And if you want to hear the full episode, listen to The Rest is Classified wherever you get your podcasts.

Typically, someone who'd done this would keep themselves secret. But luckily, he's a massive narcissist with a... Massive ego. And if you want to hear the full episode, listen to The Rest is Classified wherever you get your podcasts.

Typically, someone who'd done this would keep themselves secret. But luckily, he's a massive narcissist with a... Massive ego. And if you want to hear the full episode, listen to The Rest is Classified wherever you get your podcasts.

Pigeons, Tom. It all comes back to pigeons, the superheroes of history. I think if I hadn't appeared on The Rest is History doing pigeons, I don't think I'd have understood the power of podcasting, not least, and enjoyed it so much. And it's fascinating. After a career, 20-odd years broadcasting at the BBC, I appear on The Rest is History to talk about pigeons.

Pigeons, Tom. It all comes back to pigeons, the superheroes of history. I think if I hadn't appeared on The Rest is History doing pigeons, I don't think I'd have understood the power of podcasting, not least, and enjoyed it so much. And it's fascinating. After a career, 20-odd years broadcasting at the BBC, I appear on The Rest is History to talk about pigeons.

Pigeons, Tom. It all comes back to pigeons, the superheroes of history. I think if I hadn't appeared on The Rest is History doing pigeons, I don't think I'd have understood the power of podcasting, not least, and enjoyed it so much. And it's fascinating. After a career, 20-odd years broadcasting at the BBC, I appear on The Rest is History to talk about pigeons.

And that is all anyone wants to talk to me about. They go, I heard you... I heard you on The Rest is History. So I suddenly realised, I think the power of podcasting came to life at that moment, brought to life through the superheroes of pigeons. And I think that was one of the foundational reasons for The Rest is Classified coming into being.

And that is all anyone wants to talk to me about. They go, I heard you... I heard you on The Rest is History. So I suddenly realised, I think the power of podcasting came to life at that moment, brought to life through the superheroes of pigeons. And I think that was one of the foundational reasons for The Rest is Classified coming into being.

And that is all anyone wants to talk to me about. They go, I heard you... I heard you on The Rest is History. So I suddenly realised, I think the power of podcasting came to life at that moment, brought to life through the superheroes of pigeons. And I think that was one of the foundational reasons for The Rest is Classified coming into being.

There are a few others as well, which is people do love stories about spies and secrets. And me and David enjoy a good spy story as well.

There are a few others as well, which is people do love stories about spies and secrets. And me and David enjoy a good spy story as well.

There are a few others as well, which is people do love stories about spies and secrets. And me and David enjoy a good spy story as well.

Well, we've got a rich array from history right up to the present. So we started off with a coup in Iran in 1953, engineered by Britain and America and the MI6 and the CIA to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran. We've also looked at the first chief of MI6, a wonderful character called Mansfield Cumming, who was founding MI6, the British Secret Service, around the time of the First World War.

Well, we've got a rich array from history right up to the present. So we started off with a coup in Iran in 1953, engineered by Britain and America and the MI6 and the CIA to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran. We've also looked at the first chief of MI6, a wonderful character called Mansfield Cumming, who was founding MI6, the British Secret Service, around the time of the First World War.

Well, we've got a rich array from history right up to the present. So we started off with a coup in Iran in 1953, engineered by Britain and America and the MI6 and the CIA to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran. We've also looked at the first chief of MI6, a wonderful character called Mansfield Cumming, who was founding MI6, the British Secret Service, around the time of the First World War.

Famously, he had a wooden leg and he wouldn't tell new recruits that he had a wooden leg. And they'd come into his office and he would stab himself with a penknife in the wooden leg to test whether or not they'd flinch. And if they flinched, he knew they weren't good enough for the British Secret Service.