Gordon Carrera

That one person's betrayal and what it did, I think, is really interesting. So I do think spies matter. And you can look at that right up to the recent invasion of Ukraine in 2022 by Russia and the way in which Western intelligence was declassifying information about what Russia was up to, to try and disrupt that invasion. So you can see the way intelligence is often used in the public domain.

That one person's betrayal and what it did, I think, is really interesting. So I do think spies matter. And you can look at that right up to the recent invasion of Ukraine in 2022 by Russia and the way in which Western intelligence was declassifying information about what Russia was up to, to try and disrupt that invasion. So you can see the way intelligence is often used in the public domain.

That one person's betrayal and what it did, I think, is really interesting. So I do think spies matter. And you can look at that right up to the recent invasion of Ukraine in 2022 by Russia and the way in which Western intelligence was declassifying information about what Russia was up to, to try and disrupt that invasion. So you can see the way intelligence is often used in the public domain.

Think about the justification of the war in Iraq, using intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. All of that shows that it does matter.

Think about the justification of the war in Iraq, using intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. All of that shows that it does matter.

Think about the justification of the war in Iraq, using intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. All of that shows that it does matter.

Alistair and Rory may want to comment on some of these matters. They may have knowledge about these affairs, given their backgrounds in the diplomatic and governmental world. So yeah, I think there's plenty of room.

Alistair and Rory may want to comment on some of these matters. They may have knowledge about these affairs, given their backgrounds in the diplomatic and governmental world. So yeah, I think there's plenty of room.

Alistair and Rory may want to comment on some of these matters. They may have knowledge about these affairs, given their backgrounds in the diplomatic and governmental world. So yeah, I think there's plenty of room.

Since our podcast a while back, I have been asking that high and low in the British state. And I had some assurances from security officials that they were looking at it. But I fear... That's meaningless. But that's what I fear, Dominic. I fear you're right. I feel they're fobbing me off. And so, you know, I'd hope that perhaps collectively we could make another push on the pigeon gap.

Since our podcast a while back, I have been asking that high and low in the British state. And I had some assurances from security officials that they were looking at it. But I fear... That's meaningless. But that's what I fear, Dominic. I fear you're right. I feel they're fobbing me off. And so, you know, I'd hope that perhaps collectively we could make another push on the pigeon gap.

Since our podcast a while back, I have been asking that high and low in the British state. And I had some assurances from security officials that they were looking at it. But I fear... That's meaningless. But that's what I fear, Dominic. I fear you're right. I feel they're fobbing me off. And so, you know, I'd hope that perhaps collectively we could make another push on the pigeon gap.

If Churchill, you know, in the 30s could campaign on the gap with, you know, Nazi rearmament, I think, you know, if he was alive today, I'd like to think Churchill might have a podcast and he'd be, you know, podcasting about that. So perhaps we can do our bit to close that pigeon gap.

If Churchill, you know, in the 30s could campaign on the gap with, you know, Nazi rearmament, I think, you know, if he was alive today, I'd like to think Churchill might have a podcast and he'd be, you know, podcasting about that. So perhaps we can do our bit to close that pigeon gap.

If Churchill, you know, in the 30s could campaign on the gap with, you know, Nazi rearmament, I think, you know, if he was alive today, I'd like to think Churchill might have a podcast and he'd be, you know, podcasting about that. So perhaps we can do our bit to close that pigeon gap.

Thank you, Gordon.

Thank you, Gordon.

Thank you, Gordon.

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting way of seeing it because rather than thinking she is someone who is trained as a spy and recruited, put through a year or two of training and then sent to do this, she's someone who they go, you've got access, you've got influence, you've proved that in London. Let's start using you and training you up as you go to become a spy.

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting way of seeing it because rather than thinking she is someone who is trained as a spy and recruited, put through a year or two of training and then sent to do this, she's someone who they go, you've got access, you've got influence, you've proved that in London. Let's start using you and training you up as you go to become a spy.