Greg Jenner

She's now Sojourner Truth, and soon she was living in another commune, Desiree. Such a hippie.

She's now Sojourner Truth, and soon she was living in another commune, Desiree. Such a hippie.

Loves a guy in a beard and robes. But this one's less problematic, Michelle. This is the Northampton Association for Education and Industry, which sounds like a kind of local government thing. What is this commune?

Loves a guy in a beard and robes. But this one's less problematic, Michelle. This is the Northampton Association for Education and Industry, which sounds like a kind of local government thing. What is this commune?

And Desiree, this is where she meets another very famous American abolitionist. Do you want to guess who? Can it please be Harriet Tubman? Because she's on the Underground Railroad.

And Desiree, this is where she meets another very famous American abolitionist. Do you want to guess who? Can it please be Harriet Tubman? Because she's on the Underground Railroad.

Yeah, well done. Yeah, very good. Okay. And Frederick Douglass, we've done an episode on it. Listeners, if you want to check that out, it's a really good one. Douglass is a renowned orator. He's a brilliant speaker and incredibly articulate. You might assume that Douglass and Sojourner Truth get on really well, but there's sort of tension, Michelle.

Yeah, well done. Yeah, very good. Okay. And Frederick Douglass, we've done an episode on it. Listeners, if you want to check that out, it's a really good one. Douglass is a renowned orator. He's a brilliant speaker and incredibly articulate. You might assume that Douglass and Sojourner Truth get on really well, but there's sort of tension, Michelle.

Who's the headline act? Is it Frederick Douglass or is it Sojourner Truth?

Who's the headline act? Is it Frederick Douglass or is it Sojourner Truth?

I mean, it's fascinating, isn't it? Because we can lift both of these up as heroes and as pioneers. But actually, there's a sort of fractious relationship there. So Jenna Truth does copy one of Douglas's better ideas, i.e. a book. He writes a sort of very, very famous book, sells quite a lot of copies, 4,500. And six months later, Jenna Truth sort of announces that she's going to do a book.

I mean, it's fascinating, isn't it? Because we can lift both of these up as heroes and as pioneers. But actually, there's a sort of fractious relationship there. So Jenna Truth does copy one of Douglas's better ideas, i.e. a book. He writes a sort of very, very famous book, sells quite a lot of copies, 4,500. And six months later, Jenna Truth sort of announces that she's going to do a book.

What's her book called, Michelle?

What's her book called, Michelle?

Yeah, put it on the front cover. You must buy this book. It's very important.

Yeah, put it on the front cover. You must buy this book. It's very important.

So in the 1850s, with the book out, Sojourner Truth went on a book tour. Is she famous by this point? Is she renowned? Are people flocking to go and see her talk?

So in the 1850s, with the book out, Sojourner Truth went on a book tour. Is she famous by this point? Is she renowned? Are people flocking to go and see her talk?

So she's funny, Desiree, and she's 5'11". She's got this deep, strong voice.

So she's funny, Desiree, and she's 5'11". She's got this deep, strong voice.