Hahrie Han
speaker
207 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Sep 2024
last heard Sep 2024
Hahrie Han’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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And Undivided really focused on this question of how do we get you to become the kind of people who do what needs to be done? And then, and this is why the structural element I think really matters, how do we then create the scaffolding around you that you need to be able to sustain that kind of behavior over the long term?
And so the other piece about Undivided that I always pick as an important part of the story is that the Undivided program really is a six-week program. That's where it starts. But then they invite people into these things that they call on-ramps, which are sort of vehicles through which the activity can be continued.
And different people can choose different kind of on-ramps depending on what they have time for in their life and what they're interested in and and all the different kind of things. But the important piece of it was that people had a vehicle through which they could continue to negotiate the complexity of navigating the racial divide, you know?
And so it's not like they were like, here, we taught you all this stuff. Now we're going to drop you off, like go off and become, you know, a bridge builder in life, right? It sort of was like, it's really hard. And all of these people face backlash from their family, from their friends, from their church community. And they had to figure out how am I going to how do I make meaning of this?
What does this mean? You know, what do I believe? How is this consistent with my values or not? Like these are all really hard things to answer.
Oh, completely. Yeah. It's totally, it's a, it's a difference between, yeah, it's a difference between kind of saying, you know, here, I'm going to make you a consumer of, you know, these, uh, scripts that I'm going to write for you, versus I'm going to make you a problem solver, right, who has the capacity to creatively solve these problems that are inevitably going to come your way.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think the assumption is that like, you know, we are all human and we are all, we all have certain prejudices and biases that we bring to the world. And because for those of us who grew up in America, very often that is racialized, right? Like it's just a fact of life in America in a way. And so I, you know, we're not going to take the humans that we wish we had.
And so we're going to take the humans that we have. Right. And then we're going to sort of say, like, even if that's true, I think there are a lot of people that kind of have this sense that, you know what, but the world that I want to live in is a world in which diversity and equity and inclusion is valued, but I don't really know what that means and how do I get there?
And, and sometimes when I have questions, I'm not sure where to go. And when I take action, I feel like I'm all alone, you know? And so it's, it's, You know, if I look at some of the survey data that we have in Undivided, it's, you know, it's not like they were taking white supremacists and turning them into warriors for anti-racism.
But they instead were taking people who felt isolated and putting them into community. You know, taking people who felt confused and helping them make sense of that confusion. Exactly.
but to be clear, like, you know, one of the core characters in the book is a white woman named Jess, who, you know, she grew up in a family where her dad literally had the words like white power tattooed on the back of his triceps.
And he taught her a kind of ideology of white supremacy explicitly, you know, as he was, as they were growing up and, you know, but then she was, became addicted to opioids in high school. She eventually was sent to prison in prison. She's in a multiracial environment. And she thinks, wait a minute, like,
you know, these women are not at all the way that my dad taught me to believe like what's going on here. And so that was enough to kind of begin to, to, um, have her have some, you know, ask questions that she hadn't really asked before. And then when she came out of prison, she found, um, crossroads and then she, found she had the opportunity to join Undivided.
And she's like, wait a minute, like all these questions that I had, like, here's something that might help me answer it.
And then, you know, she really, she didn't, you know, she, as she puts it, she's like, you know, my dad always told me that the last racist died with Martin Luther King, you know, and, and, you know, when she heard that that wasn't true at all, it just like blew her mind because she's hadn't been exposed to anything before.
Yes. So a couple of things. So it is true. Like they started, you know, this was a program that did take place in a church and they started every weekly session with biblical groundings that people could understand that this is this vision of racial solidarity is very grounded in their understanding of the Bible. And, you know, they are an evangelical church.
So they take the Bible literally and, you know, all these different things. Okay, so that's all true. But another way to think about your question is, I think a lot of people kind of say like, oh, but what you're describing is not possible outside of the faith context. And I'm more skeptical there, you know. And the reason for that is, I think the ways in which I saw...
the fact that it was a church make a difference had less to do with the fact that people all shared a faith in God and more to do with the fact that because they were part of the church, they were used to the importance of collective life. That they had had experience just by going to church and going to Crossroads every Sunday of like,
It's kind of awesome when I have lots of other people around me that I enjoy being around. I get to see them once a week, and we all do this thing together, and we're invited to an annual women's retreat or an annual men's retreat or these different kinds of things. And so people had a kind of visceral understanding of the value of collective life. that I think helped carry Undivided forward.
And I think that was more powerful than the fact that what bound them together was faith in a spiritual being. And the reason why I make that distinction is only because
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