Hannah Rosen

Like, is there a universe in which higher tariffs do have a potential to shift consumer habits and maybe help out this addiction to cheap? Because we all know that the addiction to cheap encourages bad labor practices and pollution all over the world. So it is a big problem that's hard to shift.

I see. So it's just too crude an instrument.

I see. So it's just too crude an instrument.

I see. So it's just too crude an instrument.

Right, right. So there isn't any intentionality. If you wanted to shift consumer culture, improve the environment, you would be doing it in an entirely different and more targeted way.

Right, right. So there isn't any intentionality. If you wanted to shift consumer culture, improve the environment, you would be doing it in an entirely different and more targeted way.

Right, right. So there isn't any intentionality. If you wanted to shift consumer culture, improve the environment, you would be doing it in an entirely different and more targeted way.

Right. Right. Like the very obvious example is higher gas prices, less driving, like what they do in Europe, you know. Can you see any scenario where this all unfolds in the way Trump imagines, which is short-term pain for long-term gain? No. No scenario in which like the American manufacturer, like more things are manufactured in the U.S.

Right. Right. Like the very obvious example is higher gas prices, less driving, like what they do in Europe, you know. Can you see any scenario where this all unfolds in the way Trump imagines, which is short-term pain for long-term gain? No. No scenario in which like the American manufacturer, like more things are manufactured in the U.S.

Right. Right. Like the very obvious example is higher gas prices, less driving, like what they do in Europe, you know. Can you see any scenario where this all unfolds in the way Trump imagines, which is short-term pain for long-term gain? No. No scenario in which like the American manufacturer, like more things are manufactured in the U.S.

You know, people figure out where the, you know, how to make an American doll factory. Like none of that seems realistic to you.

You know, people figure out where the, you know, how to make an American doll factory. Like none of that seems realistic to you.

You know, people figure out where the, you know, how to make an American doll factory. Like none of that seems realistic to you.

Who do you think is going to be hurt the most in the next year or two?

Who do you think is going to be hurt the most in the next year or two?

Who do you think is going to be hurt the most in the next year or two?

Well, Martha, I really don't relish ending an interview on no silver lining and no wins for anyone, but I think that's just the reality. So thank you for delivering us this medicine. I appreciate it.

Well, Martha, I really don't relish ending an interview on no silver lining and no wins for anyone, but I think that's just the reality. So thank you for delivering us this medicine. I appreciate it.

Well, Martha, I really don't relish ending an interview on no silver lining and no wins for anyone, but I think that's just the reality. So thank you for delivering us this medicine. I appreciate it.

This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Kevin Townsend and Janae West. It was edited by Claudina Bade. We had engineering support from Rob Smerciak, fact-checking by Sarah Kurlewski. Claudina Bade is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio. Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.