Hannah Rosen

And if he thinks we're in a Fort Sumter moment.

We've all been reading and hearing a lot about Minneapolis, watching the videos.

Did he address at all the trauma to the state, like how it felt to be there?

There were points when he was talking to you where it seemed like it was surreal, the experience that he just went through, like Atwood novel kind of surreal.

Well, Isaac, thank you so much for doing this interview and for joining us today.

This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Janae West with reporting from Jocelyn Frank.

It was edited by Kevin Townsend.

Rob Smirsak engineered and composed original music.

Claudina Bade is the executive producer of audio at The Atlantic and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.

Listeners, if you enjoy the show, you can support our work and the work of all Atlantic journalists when you subscribe to The Atlantic at theatlantic.com slash listener.

I'm Hannah Rosen.

Thank you for listening.

I'm Anne Applebaum.

Over the past year, as I watched Donald Trump demand unprecedented new powers, I wondered, don't he and his team fear that these same powers could one day be used by a different administration and a different president to achieve very different goals?

Well, maybe they are afraid.

And maybe that's why they're using their new tools to change our institutions, even to alter the playing field in advance of midterm elections later this year, to make sure their opponents can't win.

We could win, but we are very, very, very likely to lose if we keep treating this as business as usual.

reporting on the sweeping changes unfolding in our country and preparing you to think about what might happen next.

The new season of Autocracy in America, available now.

This is Ryan.