Hannah Rosen

So are they just going to leave?

Like, is this very temporary, is your impression?

Sort of once we resolve the TSA funding, ICE will just leave?

Okay, so back to your specialty.

Let's talk about ways that ICE is evolving.

Like the new leader of DHS, Mark Wayne Mullen, he was confirmed by Congress this week, sworn in.

Who is he?

What do you know about him?

After the break, how this next phase of DHS and ICE could be just as effective in the campaign of mass deportations, without as many people noticing.

Let's get into the rebrand because that could be superficial.

It could be at the level of staff happiness or it could be at the level of genuinely shifting policies.

So what's his relationship with Tom Homan?

Okay.

That's complicated.

First of all, you said delivering on the agenda.

I mean, do any of these personnel changes then matter if the person setting the agenda is still Stephen Miller, who still has quota demands?

I guess I'm still trying to gauge if that's a genuine policy shift because Tom Homan, who we now talk about as the calm professional, was very involved, as this magazine reported, in family separation policies.

So I don't know what he represents actually politically when he's executing mass deportations.

Like, does he just represent the not-Greg Bovino?

But actually his policies are pretty similar.