Holly Wainwright

The stress and pressure, the commercial pressure, the advertising.

It sounds like a great job, but what you know when you're in an industry for a long time and you do some big jobs is...

they're not always that good, right?

So that's something that a woman of Grace's age and experience who had decided

who knew what she wanted, could say no to Anna Wintour.

And as she said, that's not what I want.

And that is such a strong statement.

Whereas when you're younger, your mum's advice is good, Em.

Like, say yes to everything.

If you don't like it, you can always chuck it in.

Who cares?

Pivot, move, do whatever.

But I think that as you get older, you kind of know...

what they're asking you for and whether it is really what you want.

How do you know though?

Well, I think instinct is a big thing.

But when I was thinking about what I'd said, because I think that your gut, you know how some people say it's either a hell no or a hell yes or a fuck yes, a hell no, fuck yes or something like that.

I'm not wired like that.

I'm much more shades of grey person.

So that's not necessarily true.