Holly Wainwright

It's weird to know it's making our quality of life worse.

I understand Matilda kind of longing for that world, as you say, Holly, even having not experienced it because I, what you're talking about with dating, I never experienced that.

When you hooked up with someone, you could so easily find them on MySpace and you'd see who all their friends were and you'd get this like digital idea of what their identity was, you

And it meant that dating and socialising generally became really porous, like that you never had to commit to anything because you could just commit via your phone at some point.

Like there wasn't anything clear about any of it.

You did.

I don't think I had it then, but I have it now that it really feels like, I don't know, the presence, like the act of being present has been stolen from all of us.

Because it makes it speed up.

I think it a lot with parenting.

I think how did people do this without phones?

Like did you sit there and stare into your child's eyes a whole lot more?

And that's the other thing I'm really interested about.

Like I think there's a real curiosity about a pre-phone life because I can't imagine it.

Like I can't imagine being an adult and not having my phone.

I think about that life and I think were you distracted by other things?

Have we just replaced distraction?

I know.

We're very Eugenie.

Yeah, I think when they turn 40 they get £5 million from Great Granny, something like that.

It is weird.