Ilan Goldenberg

Do I call America a fascist state, an authoritarian state?

No, I don't.

I recognize that there's huge problems here.

And I operate from within that very kind of,

basic understanding.

So, this, I think, was kind of my problem with Hassan, right?

Which was, the argument was, this state is uniquely evil.

This state was founded purely based on ethnic cleansing.

I mean, we have terrible ethnic cleansing in the founding of the history of the United States and in so many different countries around the world.

And so...

I think we just need to pull back and have a longer conversation about what is wrong and what is right and within the context of the state of Israel and how to move it to a better place.

Sure, well, I'd say I don't disagree with that, right?

But the answer is not Hamas, right?

I mean, just pull back a little bit.

I also worked on the presidential campaign in 2024.

I spent a lot of time talking to American Jews.

I'd spent a lot of time talking to voters.

And I think most voters are not in these two extreme positions, right?

I mean, I think at the end of the day, you know, you have those who are from the beginning inside the Democratic Party have said, here's the AIPAC position.

We're going to support Israel no matter what.