Ira Glass

And since I read that, I feel like I see this kind of power lie or bully lie from Trump and from his team come up in the news over and over. So, for example, Ukraine started the war with Russia. USAID sent $50 million worth of condoms to Hamas. China controls the Panama Canal.

And since I read that, I feel like I see this kind of power lie or bully lie from Trump and from his team come up in the news over and over. So, for example, Ukraine started the war with Russia. USAID sent $50 million worth of condoms to Hamas. China controls the Panama Canal.

That's something that Elon Musk claimed without presenting any evidence at all in an Oval Office press event. Where he also suggested that Social Security may be sending out checks to people 150 years old. Also without evidence. Seems to be flatly untrue.

That's something that Elon Musk claimed without presenting any evidence at all in an Oval Office press event. Where he also suggested that Social Security may be sending out checks to people 150 years old. Also without evidence. Seems to be flatly untrue.

Masha says these kind of lies, these bully lies, are different from the kind of lies that we've been used to in American politics for most of our history. Where the two sides, you know, argue back and forth. Present evidence. Try to convince each other. Or try to convince voters, at least. The bully lie is different. It doesn't try to convince you. It doesn't present evidence.

Masha says these kind of lies, these bully lies, are different from the kind of lies that we've been used to in American politics for most of our history. Where the two sides, you know, argue back and forth. Present evidence. Try to convince each other. Or try to convince voters, at least. The bully lie is different. It doesn't try to convince you. It doesn't present evidence.

It just tells you to pick a side. So when the president said that diversity programs caused the plane crash over the Potomac, when he called the president of Ukraine a dictator without elections, he didn't lay out a set of facts to make his case. He wasn't interested in rebuttal.

It just tells you to pick a side. So when the president said that diversity programs caused the plane crash over the Potomac, when he called the president of Ukraine a dictator without elections, he didn't lay out a set of facts to make his case. He wasn't interested in rebuttal.

When he does this kind of thing, Masha writes, he's asserting control over reality itself and splitting the country into those who agree to live in his reality and those who resist and become his enemies by insisting on facts.

When he does this kind of thing, Masha writes, he's asserting control over reality itself and splitting the country into those who agree to live in his reality and those who resist and become his enemies by insisting on facts.

I don't know if it's worth complicating this analysis with this example, but I was actually able to think of one instance of the Democrats doing the kind of bully lie that Masha writes about. And it's a big one that we all just lived through. It seemed like it was done more out of desperation than anything else and not part of a daily pattern of making false claims with no facts behind them.

I don't know if it's worth complicating this analysis with this example, but I was actually able to think of one instance of the Democrats doing the kind of bully lie that Masha writes about. And it's a big one that we all just lived through. It seemed like it was done more out of desperation than anything else and not part of a daily pattern of making false claims with no facts behind them.

The thing I'm talking about is Joe Biden and his advisers concealing how he had aged in office. I talked to Masha about this. Like that basically was making everybody in the country choose either you accept what we're telling you about Biden or you're against us.

The thing I'm talking about is Joe Biden and his advisers concealing how he had aged in office. I talked to Masha about this. Like that basically was making everybody in the country choose either you accept what we're telling you about Biden or you're against us.

The reason Masha is so aware of what that feels like is that they grew up in Russia, left, came back, then fled when it became impossible for them to keep living there under Vladimir Putin. Masha says the bully lie is significant because it's not a traditional part of American politics. But it is a very standard tactic of authoritarian leaders around the world and in history.

The reason Masha is so aware of what that feels like is that they grew up in Russia, left, came back, then fled when it became impossible for them to keep living there under Vladimir Putin. Masha says the bully lie is significant because it's not a traditional part of American politics. But it is a very standard tactic of authoritarian leaders around the world and in history.

I've just actually written and reported a ton about this. I wrote a book about Putin and another one about Russia's recent turn to totalitarianism. Authoritarian government, just to remind you, is basically a government run by one person, a strongman leader who holds all the power, which, of course, is different from our system of checks and balances.

I've just actually written and reported a ton about this. I wrote a book about Putin and another one about Russia's recent turn to totalitarianism. Authoritarian government, just to remind you, is basically a government run by one person, a strongman leader who holds all the power, which, of course, is different from our system of checks and balances.

Masha wrote about the bully lie in their book about Donald Trump's first term. The book is called Surviving Autocracy. That's what I asked him to read from a little earlier. In that book, Masha argues that Donald Trump does lots of things that we normally see from authoritarian leaders, not just the bully lies. And I think it's worth talking about it for a little bit here.

Masha wrote about the bully lie in their book about Donald Trump's first term. The book is called Surviving Autocracy. That's what I asked him to read from a little earlier. In that book, Masha argues that Donald Trump does lots of things that we normally see from authoritarian leaders, not just the bully lies. And I think it's worth talking about it for a little bit here.