Ivana Hughes

Size and near range that you could use on the battlefield.

Yeah, nuclear weapons.

And people have called for that.

Yeah, I think that's in discussion.

Yeah, no, in the fall of 2022, after the start of the Ukraine war, there were serious discussions in the White House and an estimate from the Biden administration that there was a 50% chance of nuclear weapons use over the war in Ukraine.

I mean, like what- I actually don't.

I mean, the closest I come to is when I when I try to speak to diplomats.

These are people mostly from the State Department or from the U.S.

mission to the United Nations or examples like the one I gained from Wilton Park.

I've also spoken to diplomats from other nuclear weapons states.

Including like a UK diplomat where I was making this case that, you know, nuclear deterrence could fail.

And he goes, yeah, yeah, you're right.

And I said, and then what?

You know, we destroyed the entire human civilization.

We destroyed the planet.

We make it inhospitable to not just human life.

And he goes, that's not going to happen.

So they not only...

don't have a plan B for if nuclear deterrence fails, they also really don't want to think about it, right?

Like to them, the solution is just, you just keep going.