Jacob Frey

They were there for Bush and Clinton.

They were there for Obama and Clinton.

and there's so much value to that one because you've got this institutional knowledge and memory that spans between administrations and two the conviction and the loyalty is not to some guy it's to america

And you talk to so many of these people and they're like they're very much sure they vote, but they are very much postpartisan.

I mean, and they believe in command and control and the order that they bring.

And they also very much believe in the Constitution and that so many of these people.

would you call them careerists?

Yeah.

These professionals.

Yeah.

That so many of them have said, that's it.

We've had enough.

We're out.

We can't do this anymore.

Both, I give them a lot of credit for, you know, leaving their job because they're not willing to do this horrible thing.

And at the same time, it's really problematic because what does that leave you with?

It leaves you with, I don't know, loyalists who are just going to do whatever the president tells you to do.

failure of imagination, perhaps failure of believing that he's going to do the things that he says he's going to do.

Right.

I mean, some of these horrific things he has told people that he was going to do them.