Janet Napolitano

No.

I think it was an unfortunate example of overreach.

Actually, I'm sorry to say, because I know a lot of ICE agents and they work very hard and they're very dedicated, but

The way they were led, the way they conducted this operation, the influx of Border Patrol into ICE and their different operational tempo, the size of the operation, the abuses that we saw on lots of videos, this was not a model law enforcement operation.

I think it begins with the direction from the White House to somehow do 3,000 arrests per day and the kind of the verbiage, the wording used by the leadership, by not only from the White House, but from the leadership of the department.

It just de-emphasized what professional law enforcement, federal law enforcement should do and how they should act, demonized an entire community.

its elected leaders, its citizens, its immigrant population.

And then, you know, they garb how they conducted themselves, how they didn't de-escalate in protest situations.

There are lots of things that could have been done so much better if they were really doing an immigration enforcement initiative.

What do you wish had been done instead in Minnesota?

Well, number one, I wouldn't have sent in almost 3,000 federal agents into a city where the police department only has 600 officers, into a city that you could drive across in 20 minutes.

So just the size of the force and the saturation of the community and the lack of

coordination with state and local law enforcement.

I'm afraid this will have spillover effects to federal, state, local law enforcement coordination and many other contexts moving forward.

Right.

So, yes, I was secretary when President Obama was nicknamed, much to his chagrin, I think, the deporter-in-chief.

But here are some differences.

One is we focused on those with criminal convictions, those who were known threats to public safety, and those who were recent border crossers so that they were deported before they'd entered the country and had already settled here.

And that comprised the vast majority of our numbers.

Not everybody.