Jay Jack

And it's like, I think it's because they don't,

Thinking about aversives is aversive to me.

I don't want to think, dude, I'll spend three hours thinking about which toy I'm going to buy my fucking dog.

Do you know what I mean?

Of course.

But it's like the people sit around, really think like, okay, tomorrow when I reinforce his heel, I'm going to use this reinforcer on this schedule and I'm going to have it.

And they'll really, really carefully spend time considering all the possibilities and options and making a plan.

And then you're like, okay.

how much power, how much thought if you're using punishment, you should be given that same kind of consideration of learning and effort and understanding to the aversive side of it.

But nobody likes to think about it.

And so they kind of sweep it under the rug.

They're like, well, I don't really want, I'll deal with that when I get there.

I'll just, but by not thinking about it and by not understanding it, you use it.

worse like with less effect like you're more likely like if we agree that non-contingent aversives is abuse and we agree that venting emotion into a dog is abuse which to me those are the two definitions like if i'm not trying to teach you a lesson i'm trying to vent my anger into you yes yes yes yes emotion is abuse and non-contingent aversives is abuse

But if you don't like to think about, if you don't study, no matter how distasteful the subject is, if you don't study punishment and understand it and all its nuance, you're more likely to do both of those things.

Because if you're not good at applying aversives, you're likely to fuck up and make it non-contingent, which is definitely shitty.

And if you hold, it's like, it's like the kid that shoots up a school, like he gets bullied and never stands up, never stands up, never stands up.

And then finally shoots the place up.

People will like, I don't want to use aversives.

I don't want to use aversives.