Jeff Guinn
speaker
677 appearances
2 recordings
1 series
first heard Dec 2024
last heard 14 Sep
Jeff Guinn’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 1 in all, peaking in Sep 2026 with 1.
Appearances
They are the punching bag for the NRA, these thugs, these jackbooted thugs. Stormtroopers who are going to force themselves into your home and take away your guns. That's the way they're shown. And yet, this is one of the most cost-efficient, effective agencies in America.
In the three years before what happens in Waco, you're talking about a group, an organization that conducts about 2,700 raids on drug dealers, gun runners, some of the skankiest people in America. And in all those raids, only three times are shots even fired. This is how efficient they are.
And yet, they're unpopular, there's always talk, they're going to be rolled into the FBI or some other agency. And in early 1992, there's talk that they may be in their last year. Clinton is talking about the possibility, this would save money, it'll condense government. They don't want that to happen.
So they're trying to think, what can we do that just proves to the public we're absolutely necessary. They start looking into the Branch Davidians at Mount Carmel because of the delivery man's complaint. And they pretty soon track down that what the Branch Davidians apparently are doing are illegally converting guns to fully automatic without paying the taxes or doing the registration.
That's breaking the law. And because of that, Legally they should in fact be raided by the ATF. The investigation takes months. ATF is trying to really get this nailed down. Because they make the decision that here is some crazy religious group. They never actually bother to try to find out what the Davidians believe. Just the religious nuts.
They start comparing them to People's Temple, the Jonestown Massacre, to the Manson family, some weird demagogue. And they build it up so if they do this properly, they go in there and without a shot being fired, get these guns from these religious nutcases. In March 1993, when they have to go before Congress to try to get their budget confirmed again, they'll have this great success.
We save the country from these gun-running criminals. Religiöse Fanatiker.
There was never supposed to be a siege. The ATF had basically two different ways of running a raid when they're going to try to take a group by surprise. The first is surround and call out. This would be a siege, where the Branch Davidians wake up one morning and there's the ATF all around Mount Carmel saying, come out with your hands up, we got you. And we can wait as long as we need to.
Der andere nennt sich dynamische Entfernung. Wenn man eigentlich in die Gegend geht, wo die Anwesenden sind, sich zwischen ihnen und ihren Waffen befindet und sie besiegt. Und ATF ist gut bei beiden von diesen. Sie machen letztendlich die Entscheidung für dynamische Entfernung, weil die Branch Davidians dieses Kachet von Waffen haben. Sie haben Lebensmittel, die sie für Monate halten können.
ATF entscheidet für eine dynamische Entfernung. Sie werden sie überrascht nehmen. Um das zu tun, müssen sie Mount Carmel ausbauen. Nun, wahrscheinlich der beste Weg, um das zu erklären, ist, dass man sich eine desolierte, schmutzige Lande bilden muss, nur nach Norden von Waco. Kleine, scharfe Straßen, manchmal gepaviert, manchmal Dirt. Schmutzige Brasen, keine Bäume, viele Feuerwände.
late 1992 and early 1993 rents one of the houses across the way. And they're going to fool these dumb religious fanatics and put eight of their male agents in there. And the agents will simply watch how the Branch Davidians go about everything, figure out how they can do the raid. Problem is, these guys are all in their 30s, they have short haircuts.
The Branch Davidians figure out one day after they move there that these are government agents. They don't know what agency... Aber sieh, es ist Beweise. Das ist Babylon.
Babylon schließt sich ein. Und sie lassen sogar einen dieser Agenten Mount Carmel infiltrieren. Sie wissen genau, wer er ist, aber sie lernen mehr über ATF oder wer auch immer diese Leute sind von der Regierung, von dem, dass dieser Typ kommt. Also er sagt seinen Superioren, naja, sie wissen nicht, wer ich bin. Natürlich wissen sie. Wow.
So the idea is, they get information from him what the Branch Davidians day is like. That every morning, the men who don't have day jobs in town are working digging this huge pit. The Branch Davidians say that it's just a tornado shelter. The government thinks they're making a bunker. You know, they're getting ready to try to hole up in there. So most of the men are out of the main building.
They're told by informants, former Branch Davidians, that all the guns... and there's an arsenal, everybody agrees, are kept in one locked room and only David Koresh can give permission to get in there. That's why dynamic entry seems like a good idea. The men go out working the pit, ATF comes charging in, the women and children in the big house are safe. Nobody gets hurt. That's their plan.
The problem is, of course, that the element of surprise gets lost and that's where everything really goes to hell.
ugly little section of the world. And trust me, it's ugly. I was there a lot. It's on top of a low sloping hill. There are no trees or anything. There's no cover. For about a hundred yards from the main road, and the main road is about this wide, there's a circular driveway. ATFs decided they're going to surprise these rubes by having their 76 agents make the approach in two cattle trailers.
In this backcountry area of Texas, there's cattle trailers all the time. The Branch Davidians, who clearly can't be too smart if they're following a psycho like David Koresh, will see two cattle trailers coming up the driveway and think, you know, some dumb guys just took a wrong turn.
The problem for ATF, of course, is if the Branch Davidians happen to be waiting for them on the high ground, already armed, with fully automatic AR-15-style rifles. There's no cover for their agents. The agents could literally be blown away as they try to get out of the cattle cars. And ATF is so confident that these people are too stupid. They're never going to guess what's going to happen.
We'll take them by surprise. They have no plan B, for if they've lost the element of surprise. And so, on the fateful morning, the two Cattle trailers come chugging up. Out the agents are going to burst. And as they do, the shooting starts. Now you have 76 government agents not armed with powerful, fully automatic guns at all. And they are facing without cover. Think about that.
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