Jeffrey Goldberg

But it's just a simple observation that the quote, I hate this expression, I'm sorry to use it, the lived experience of American Jews.

Yeah.

tends to make the majority of them liberal-minded in outlook.

The lived experience of Israelis, especially today, makes them more Middle Eastern.

Right.

Israel is becoming a more Middle Eastern country.

Right.

Every day.

Pure power politics.

Right.

And so we're in a conversation that involves, you know, so much love and so much frustration and some contempt.

And.

a little bit of hope, but a lot of despair.

And, and that's just reality.

And I haven't, I mean, probably spend the rest of my life working through this, but what I, what I keep in my own mind is like, the goal is to keep as many people across the board from dying as possible.

I'm probably less quote unquote left than,

than I was in 2013 or 2002 when I was writing against the settlements.

I think now it's like a tragic kind of realism or like a centrist realism, which is like until the Muslim world decides that the Jews have a right to a homeland of their own in at least part of their ancestral home, like it's not really going to change.

In the meantime, let's say that that happens,

I don't see that happening anytime soon.