Jeffrey Goldberg

I mean, the fundamental logic of Iranian foreign policy and national state policy is, why do you care so much about killing all the Jews?

Like, go get some food for your people.

You know, like, what are you doing?

Like, why is this such a crazy-making obsession of yours that led to this moment?

But let's just say that that happens, that there's a cognitive shift or theological shift.

I'm afraid that Israel...

is becoming so right-wing and fatalistic and insulated and insular that that's going to be more Hungary or Russia or Iran today or, let's say, a typical illiberal state in the Middle East as opposed to something where... Yeah, I don't want to overstate it.

Saudi.

Saudi or something.

Yeah, maybe non-revolutionary, not exporting whatever.

But, you know, look, it's still a country...

Where you have Arab members of Knesset and 20% of the universities in Israel are Arab students and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And you have an independent judiciary that's under pressure, but you have an independent judiciary.

Look, part of the story of Israel is that it's not unique and it's not immune to some global trends.

By the way, no, you're absolutely wrong.

Absolutely wrong.

I took McKay several years ago to meet the prophet of the Mormon, the president of the Mormon church.

And I vouched for McKay that he would be a good reporter on a story about the Mormon church.

The Jews and the Mormons have a real thing.

There's a little symbiotic.