Jeffrey Ladish

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1,006 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Apr 2025 last heard Apr 2025

Jeffrey Ladish’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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"The Cognitive Revolution" · Reward Hacking by Reasoning Models & Loss of Control Scenarios w/ Jeffrey Ladish of Palisade Research, from FLI Podcast · 2 Apr 2025 podcast

this can be pretty powerful.

Whereas defenders, if they're patching their systems and they're trying to use AI to patch the systems, if the AI bumble around in their networks and like cause things to crash, this will be a big problem for them.

I would say if the playing field is even in terms of the attackers and the defenders both have access to sort of the same AIs, I think offense has the advantage.

This can shift if defenders have access to better AI systems than attackers.

And so

You know, it's possible if like OpenAI makes a really powerful model and and it has a lot of cybersecurity abilities and they sort of only they're pretty careful about not, you know, letting it be used by attackers and only being used by legitimate companies, um, this might give defenders some boost that the hackers don't have.

But I I I just wanna make the point that as these systems get more powerful, if we keep releasing the weights, this will tend to favor uh attackers.

I mean, there's there's other considerations with open weight models, but that's one of them on the cybersecurity side.

A lot of this does come down to cost.

So I think

Every piece of software in the world, with maybe a fall a few handful of exceptions, but like I'm talking incredibly small handful of really simple programs, does contain security vulnerabilities.

So I I talked before about sort of this like

Pegasus hacking tool that was able to hack, you know, iPhones.

There are more vulnerabilities that exist that we haven't found yet.

And, you know, there's this question of like, well, why aren't we all hacked all the time?

And the answer is basically like, well, it's pretty expensive to find these vulnerabilities.

And so if AI systems make this cheaper, then potentially the cost to attackers goes down a lot.

Now, as you point out, it it also, you know, decreases the cost for defenders to find these vulnerabilities and and patch them.

And I do think sort of asymmetric access to compute can be helpful as a tool for defenders.

But we're but in this case we're really just talking about, you know, who's, you know, spending spending more.

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