Jeffrey Sachs

If we are anything as a world community, we have to implement what we've said.

I think it's obvious. There's basically one deep state party. And that is the party of Cheney, Harris, Biden, Victoria Nuland, my colleague at Columbia University now. And Nuland is kind of the face of all of this because she has been in every administration for the last 30 years. She was in the Clinton administration wrecking our policies towards Russia in the 1990s.

I think it's obvious. There's basically one deep state party. And that is the party of Cheney, Harris, Biden, Victoria Nuland, my colleague at Columbia University now. And Nuland is kind of the face of all of this because she has been in every administration for the last 30 years. She was in the Clinton administration wrecking our policies towards Russia in the 1990s.

She was in the Bush administration, junior, with Cheney. wrecking our policies towards NATO enlargement. She was in then the Obama administration as Hillary's spokesperson first and then making a coup in Ukraine in February 2014, not a great move, started a war. Then she was Biden's Under Secretary of State. Now that's both parties.

She was in the Bush administration, junior, with Cheney. wrecking our policies towards NATO enlargement. She was in then the Obama administration as Hillary's spokesperson first and then making a coup in Ukraine in February 2014, not a great move, started a war. Then she was Biden's Under Secretary of State. Now that's both parties.

It's a colossal mess, and she's been Cheney's advisor, she's been Biden's advisor, and makes perfect sense. This is the reality. We're trying to find out if there's another party. That's the big question.

It's a colossal mess, and she's been Cheney's advisor, she's been Biden's advisor, and makes perfect sense. This is the reality. We're trying to find out if there's another party. That's the big question.

There's a very interesting interview of Putin in Figaro in 2017. And he says, I've dealt with three presidents now. They come into office with some ideas even. But then the men in the dark suits and the blue ties, and then he says, I wear red ties, but they wear blue ties. They come in and explain the way the world really is. And there go the ideas. And I think that's Putin's experience.

There's a very interesting interview of Putin in Figaro in 2017. And he says, I've dealt with three presidents now. They come into office with some ideas even. But then the men in the dark suits and the blue ties, and then he says, I wear red ties, but they wear blue ties. They come in and explain the way the world really is. And there go the ideas. And I think that's Putin's experience.

That's our experience. That's my experience, which is that there's a deeply entrained foreign policy. It has been in place in my interpretation for many decades, but arguably a variant of it has been in place since 1992. I got to watch some of it early on because I was an advisor to Gorbachev and I was an advisor to Yeltsin.

That's our experience. That's my experience, which is that there's a deeply entrained foreign policy. It has been in place in my interpretation for many decades, but arguably a variant of it has been in place since 1992. I got to watch some of it early on because I was an advisor to Gorbachev and I was an advisor to Yeltsin.

And so I saw early makings of this, though I didn't fully understand it except in retrospect. But that policy has been mostly in place pretty consistently for 30 years, and it didn't really matter whether it was Bush Sr., whether it was Clinton, whether it was Bush Jr., whether it was Obama, whether it was Trump. After all, who did Trump hire? He hired John Bolton. Well, pretty deep state.

And so I saw early makings of this, though I didn't fully understand it except in retrospect. But that policy has been mostly in place pretty consistently for 30 years, and it didn't really matter whether it was Bush Sr., whether it was Clinton, whether it was Bush Jr., whether it was Obama, whether it was Trump. After all, who did Trump hire? He hired John Bolton. Well, pretty deep state.

That was the end of it. They told, you know, he explained, this is the way it is. And by the way, Bolton explained also in his memoirs When Trump didn't agree, we figured out ways to trick him, basically.

That was the end of it. They told, you know, he explained, this is the way it is. And by the way, Bolton explained also in his memoirs When Trump didn't agree, we figured out ways to trick him, basically.

You know, if I were lucky to sit next to the world's greatest political... philosopher, which I am, he'd give you a good answer, which is the right answer, which is if you want to interpret American foreign policy, it is to maximize power. And John gives an explanation of that. We have some differences, but I think it's a very good description of American

You know, if I were lucky to sit next to the world's greatest political... philosopher, which I am, he'd give you a good answer, which is the right answer, which is if you want to interpret American foreign policy, it is to maximize power. And John gives an explanation of that. We have some differences, but I think it's a very good description of American

foreign policy, which is that it's trying to maximize global power, essentially, to be global hegemon. I think it could get us all killed. This is because it's a little bit delusional in my mind. But not his interpretation of their idea, but the fact that they hold that idea is a little weird to me. But in any event, that's the idea. And every time a decision comes inside that I've seen

foreign policy, which is that it's trying to maximize global power, essentially, to be global hegemon. I think it could get us all killed. This is because it's a little bit delusional in my mind. But not his interpretation of their idea, but the fact that they hold that idea is a little weird to me. But in any event, that's the idea. And every time a decision comes inside that I've seen

I'm an economist, so I don't see the security decisions the same way, but every decision that I've seen always leans in the same direction for the last 30 years, which is power as the central objective. So Clinton faced an internal cabinet, really, debate should NATO be enlarged. This is a post-Cold War phenomenon? Well, I'll let John take that.