Jennifer Forde

But I think with Adam, with Patient Zero, as we kind of went along in the story, you realize that he was absolutely shaping it and pushing...

pushing the right narrative into the media.

And he would try and sort of have his cake and eat it a little bit by saying, oh, I didn't talk to journalists.

But behind the scenes, he was facilitating introductions and other people who'd been in Cuba alongside him, connecting them with journalists and, you know, making sure that the right story got pushed.

And for sure, you wonder to an extent at the end, you know, he kind of really went to ground for a while and then...

towards the end, when he knew that we were coming close to our conclusions, really got back in touch and was kind of... Wanted to be central.

Yeah, and promising there's going to be an announcement soon.

There's going to be a bit like a sort of a Ponzi scheme, you know, when you think, okay, any day, the money's coming in any day, next Friday, okay, not this week, next Friday, it didn't come in today, next Friday.

And you don't... Does it stop you saying...

it's all a nonsense because you think, I don't want to end up with egg on my face if next week they find the weapon.

You know, so you are kind of like, it was an interesting dynamic, I think, for that.

He just was a really interesting character, much more so than we imagined, you know, we would find, I think.

Jesse Ventura.

What year was that?

Oh, 2002, I think.

So there have been kind of, you know, I was there with an American and so we'd had to go via Costa Rica because at the time you couldn't, it was at one of those times when they couldn't go and she put $20 in her passport so they don't stamp it so she doesn't get asked questions on the way back.

Um, and, um, she was from the same state as Minnesota as Jesse Ventura, which was Minnesota.

And weirdly, um, there's just been sort of various times when random American celebrities or there were Minnesotan farmers who'd gone over and tried to sort of broker some peace deal or have better relations.

Um, and I think that, um,

The way, you know, we were sort of interested in the story, I think, because it gave an opportunity to look at the really rich and fascinating history between America and Cuba.