Jesse Carey

And he ends up founding JPL, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which is still operational.

But Jack Parsons, that was his company, was JPL.

And they got massive military contracts, and he was developing some crazy rocketry stuff.

Like I said, at the time, he was corresponding with Warner Von Braun.

Well, at the same time he's doing all of this, he's living in a mansion with Alistair Crowley.

which alistair crowley is it you know maybe the the modern era's most preeminent occultist yeah and they were they started their own weird religion called thelma where they're trying to summon entities that they believe would bestow them power and then comes along um elrond hubbard comes into the picture uh yeah we talked about this a little bit

Yeah.

L. Ron Hubbard at one point stole Jack Parsons' boat and they had a big falling out.

But anyway, him and Aleister Crowley remained close.

But Jack Parsons, so the father of modern rocketry, was deeply, deeply into the occult.

It's just a weird history.

It's weird.

And I've thought about it a lot too, especially when I started working on this series, like

Because I think initially it was sort of when you look at all the all these topics, right, you kind of look at it.

Well, it's either conventional and there's a lot of weird coincidences or there's something weird going on behind the scenes, you know.

Yeah.

But I think there's also like the third way of thinking about it is like there are institutions where it's convenient for people to believe something weird is happening to you.

So even like the stuff with like NASA, right?

I know like Diana Pasolka talks a lot about like the mission patches or each of these missions are named after like an entity, Gemini, Apollo, like, you know.

And is that, is there some significance to that or is it convenient for NASA to have people question that?