Jodi Kantor

you know, most people don't get to become astronauts and it's really hard and, you know, I'm fearful that I might fail.

You know, I get that things are really bad out there, but I'm not, I don't want young people to give up.

I want to see what they can extract from the workplace, despite it all.

I mean, did 22-year-old Tim Miller ever think you'd be hosting a podcast like this?

So, so who was 22 year old Tim Miller?

It's not like that.

No, and also, you don't know the future, and many of us have experienced...

the passage of the last few decades as like a degradation, whether it's climate or other stuff, a time of gun violence, things getting worse.

But in my life, I have experienced some pretty profound come from behind victories and recoveries and reversals that I think have made me pretty optimistic.

And I've just been in a couple of profound life situations where it looked like all was lost.

And then there was recovery, healing and victory.

And so I want young people to know that that's possible.

Like we were talking about like how does social change happen?

Is it a pendulum?

No, it's like something much more complicated, right?

And, you know, is it foreordained that like the country's in decline and that everything's going to fall apart and we're all headed for collapse?

I don't think so.

No, this is meant to be a counter to the conventional wisdom.

But one thing I love about your background, and tell me if my hypothesis about this is right,

a political campaign is such a great early job, right?