Joe Natoli
speaker
494 appearances
5 recordings
1 series
first heard Jun 2026
last heard 4 Aug
Joe Natoli’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 5 in all, peaking in Jul 2026 with 2.
Appearances
MAKING UX WORK: The Joe Natoli Podcast · You Can't Reason People Out of Their Fear. · 4 Aug 2026
podcast
Okay, kids, I am here to kick you some straight science, and it is this.
People do not resist your work because they hate logic.
They resist it because they're afraid.
They're afraid of change.
They're afraid of being wrong.
They're afraid of being exposed.
They're afraid of losing control or relevance or credibility.
And you cannot reason or logic someone out of fear.
Believe me, I've tried.
many times.
I've walked into countless meetings armed with user data, usability reports, conversion metrics, accessibility violations, lawsuits in some cases, and I have still had people dig in their heels.
And, you know, you walk out baffled.
Like, why are they still resisting this?
How do they not see how much sense this makes?
And eventually, I realized, no, they don't see that this makes sense because fear is not rational.
We love to think that people, executives, business people, product managers, make decisions based on data.
As the story goes, for all the lip service that you hear about the power of data and the power of research and the power of metrics and whatever, the fact is this.
Most decisions, especially in group settings, are emotional.
They're about identity.
They're about power.
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