John Day

But when you look at those 11 names...

That sounds to me like a side that might play one of the South African URC sides on tour later on this year.

So is that how much of a worry this is, that we're losing this amount of talent and these guys aren't sort of maybe first-drawers or blacks, but they're bubbling in behind?

Yeah, it just feels like the trickle's become a bit of a river when you read those 11 names, Mark.

And I don't know what the solution here is.

I don't think the solution is to say, let's just select everyone from overseas.

Because some of these guys, you're just not going to stop these guys from going and earning extra money somewhere else, are you?

Yeah.

Steve Hansen was on the program last week and he kind of alluded to this.

He didn't say it was cheap at all, but he just said that something needs to be done to kind of resurrect what that actually means.

And he said, like most players, you put that in front of them.

Would you rather go and play for the Newcastle Red Bulls?

Here's your jersey.

Would you rather play for the All Blacks?

He said it'd be very unusual for somebody to say, I'd rather...

choose a jersey other than the All Blacks.

But we have guys now, and you look at Fahey and you look at Flanders especially, and I look at Higgins, and these guys have deliberately chosen not to pursue the All Blacks path.

So that's a business decision, a career decision, a life decision to go, yes, I know the rewards and riches are there.

But maybe part of it, John, is that whatever it is, they just don't have whatever it is.

They need to stay and grind it out and actually do it and become a really good All Black like Richie McCaw says.