John Lechner

And largely in response to the Somali piracy crisis, which I'm sure you remember, there was an opportunity for these Russian contractors to protect Russian ships that are going through the Gulf of Aden. A number of Russian contractors were even working in Iraq during the war on terror as well. The issue is that mercenarism is illegal in Russia, technically.

And largely in response to the Somali piracy crisis, which I'm sure you remember, there was an opportunity for these Russian contractors to protect Russian ships that are going through the Gulf of Aden. A number of Russian contractors were even working in Iraq during the war on terror as well. The issue is that mercenarism is illegal in Russia, technically.

And largely in response to the Somali piracy crisis, which I'm sure you remember, there was an opportunity for these Russian contractors to protect Russian ships that are going through the Gulf of Aden. A number of Russian contractors were even working in Iraq during the war on terror as well. The issue is that mercenarism is illegal in Russia, technically.

And so these firms would basically establish themselves in Hong Kong or the Bahamas or something along those lines. And then the client would provide them with the weapons when they showed up going through a third country to protect the ship or what have you. And there was this one group called Moran Group where Dmitry Utkin, after he left the service, went to go work for.

And so these firms would basically establish themselves in Hong Kong or the Bahamas or something along those lines. And then the client would provide them with the weapons when they showed up going through a third country to protect the ship or what have you. And there was this one group called Moran Group where Dmitry Utkin, after he left the service, went to go work for.

And so these firms would basically establish themselves in Hong Kong or the Bahamas or something along those lines. And then the client would provide them with the weapons when they showed up going through a third country to protect the ship or what have you. And there was this one group called Moran Group where Dmitry Utkin, after he left the service, went to go work for.

And one of the founders of Moran got a contract with a Syrian oligarch in 2013 to at least what the guys thought at the time to basically protect oil and gas assets from ISIS. And when they showed up, it turned out that the Syrians wanted them to actually take those assets from ISIS. And there was almost like a little mutiny among the contractors, but they went ahead and they got ambushed.

And one of the founders of Moran got a contract with a Syrian oligarch in 2013 to at least what the guys thought at the time to basically protect oil and gas assets from ISIS. And when they showed up, it turned out that the Syrians wanted them to actually take those assets from ISIS. And there was almost like a little mutiny among the contractors, but they went ahead and they got ambushed.

And one of the founders of Moran got a contract with a Syrian oligarch in 2013 to at least what the guys thought at the time to basically protect oil and gas assets from ISIS. And when they showed up, it turned out that the Syrians wanted them to actually take those assets from ISIS. And there was almost like a little mutiny among the contractors, but they went ahead and they got ambushed.

And Dmitry Utkin actually got the guys out safely during a sandstorm. They all go back to Russia, kind of with their tail between the legs, and the FSB, the successor to the KGB, arrests and charges the two commanders who went to Syria with mercenarism. Lutkin, who's like one level below, gets off along with all the rest of the guys.

And Dmitry Utkin actually got the guys out safely during a sandstorm. They all go back to Russia, kind of with their tail between the legs, and the FSB, the successor to the KGB, arrests and charges the two commanders who went to Syria with mercenarism. Lutkin, who's like one level below, gets off along with all the rest of the guys.

And Dmitry Utkin actually got the guys out safely during a sandstorm. They all go back to Russia, kind of with their tail between the legs, and the FSB, the successor to the KGB, arrests and charges the two commanders who went to Syria with mercenarism. Lutkin, who's like one level below, gets off along with all the rest of the guys.

And only a couple of months later, all of a sudden, Russia needs... mercenaries, they know who is interested in this type of work because they almost arrested the guy in Syria. And so those same 50 guys or so formed the core of what was just then called The Company. And Dimitri Utkin, who is a fan of the German composer Richard Wagner, takes his call sign, Wagner, in Donbas.

And only a couple of months later, all of a sudden, Russia needs... mercenaries, they know who is interested in this type of work because they almost arrested the guy in Syria. And so those same 50 guys or so formed the core of what was just then called The Company. And Dimitri Utkin, who is a fan of the German composer Richard Wagner, takes his call sign, Wagner, in Donbas.

And only a couple of months later, all of a sudden, Russia needs... mercenaries, they know who is interested in this type of work because they almost arrested the guy in Syria. And so those same 50 guys or so formed the core of what was just then called The Company. And Dimitri Utkin, who is a fan of the German composer Richard Wagner, takes his call sign, Wagner, in Donbas.

And since he was the main commander, eventually it becomes kind of the catch-all term for the company more generally. Okay.

And since he was the main commander, eventually it becomes kind of the catch-all term for the company more generally. Okay.

And since he was the main commander, eventually it becomes kind of the catch-all term for the company more generally. Okay.

So when Marat first came in in April 2015, I think it was getting close to about 600 guys. He can correct me if I'm wrong. And Marat was coming in in April 2015. So this is right around the time... that Russia is actually trying to sort of get to a ceasefire and take over these separatist republics at the time. And so when Marat joined, Wagner was a bit different at the time.

So when Marat first came in in April 2015, I think it was getting close to about 600 guys. He can correct me if I'm wrong. And Marat was coming in in April 2015. So this is right around the time... that Russia is actually trying to sort of get to a ceasefire and take over these separatist republics at the time. And so when Marat joined, Wagner was a bit different at the time.