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Jonathan Haidt

👤 Speaker
See mentions of this person in podcasts
5200 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

More responsive than any man probably.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

More responsive than any man probably.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

The way we adapt is by preventing kids from having these friendships. So here I'll draw on a really insightful analysis from a Christian writer, Andy Crouch. I did a session with him at NYU. We had a conversation, mostly on Chapter 8 of The Anxious Generation, on the spirituality chapter. And he said something so powerful. I always bring it up because it's so helpful. He said, what is magic?

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

The way we adapt is by preventing kids from having these friendships. So here I'll draw on a really insightful analysis from a Christian writer, Andy Crouch. I did a session with him at NYU. We had a conversation, mostly on Chapter 8 of The Anxious Generation, on the spirituality chapter. And he said something so powerful. I always bring it up because it's so helpful. He said, what is magic?

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Magic is instant, effortless effect on the world. Snap your fingers, something appears. It's always been the human dream. And technology is essentially magic. Technology allows us to do things. You want a car to come pick you up? Press a button. Hey, here's this car. So the technology is magic. And he says, now let's look at how children are formed. How do you get an adult?

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Magic is instant, effortless effect on the world. Snap your fingers, something appears. It's always been the human dream. And technology is essentially magic. Technology allows us to do things. You want a car to come pick you up? Press a button. Hey, here's this car. So the technology is magic. And he says, now let's look at how children are formed. How do you get an adult?

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And again, he's coming from a Christian perspective, so they care a lot about the moral formation, the religious formation of their children. And he says, the three areas of formation for children are home, school, and church, or any religious organization. So he says, those are the three areas. And he says, all three of those areas are now colonized by tech.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And again, he's coming from a Christian perspective, so they care a lot about the moral formation, the religious formation of their children. And he says, the three areas of formation for children are home, school, and church, or any religious organization. So he says, those are the three areas. And he says, all three of those areas are now colonized by tech.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

All three of them, and all three of them, kids have magic available to them all the time. Even in church, I'm hearing from pastors, they say, pull out your Bible, they pull out their phone, they look at the passage, but then they go on and do something else. So I think we have to stop that. This is not even about the content. We have to stop saying, oh, we just need better content moderation.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

All three of them, and all three of them, kids have magic available to them all the time. Even in church, I'm hearing from pastors, they say, pull out your Bible, they pull out their phone, they look at the passage, but then they go on and do something else. So I think we have to stop that. This is not even about the content. We have to stop saying, oh, we just need better content moderation.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

No, we don't. We need to realize kids have to go through a childhood in the real world with other kids within a moral universe where they experience the consequences of their own action. And they have to learn how to deal with real people who are frustrating.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

No, we don't. We need to realize kids have to go through a childhood in the real world with other kids within a moral universe where they experience the consequences of their own action. And they have to learn how to deal with real people who are frustrating.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And if we give them AI companions that they can order around, that will always flatter them, we are creating people that no one will want to employ or marry. So we've got to stop.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And if we give them AI companions that they can order around, that will always flatter them, we are creating people that no one will want to employ or marry. So we've got to stop.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Very powerful, that's right.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Very powerful, that's right.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And it really frightens me as a parent. Yeah, as it should. So a couple of concepts here. One is the concept of entanglement. So Tristan Harris of the Center for Humane Technology. points out that social media has gotten so entangled in our world that it's really hard to roll it back. Many schools communicate on Instagram. They require the kids to have smartphones.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And it really frightens me as a parent. Yeah, as it should. So a couple of concepts here. One is the concept of entanglement. So Tristan Harris of the Center for Humane Technology. points out that social media has gotten so entangled in our world that it's really hard to roll it back. Many schools communicate on Instagram. They require the kids to have smartphones.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

So it's really hard to rip it out once it's already taken root. Both of my kids' schools communicate with me by app.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

So it's really hard to rip it out once it's already taken root. Both of my kids' schools communicate with me by app.