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Jonathan Haidt

👤 Speaker
See mentions of this person in podcasts
5200 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

It has to be on my phone. It has to be your phone. That's right. So social media is so entangled. It's very hard to rip it out. It's going to be very hard to get it out of our kids' childhoods, but that's what we're working on. AI is not yet entangled. AI is just coming in. And in two or three years, it will be entangled. And as you say, there are many good applications.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

It has to be on my phone. It has to be your phone. That's right. So social media is so entangled. It's very hard to rip it out. It's going to be very hard to get it out of our kids' childhoods, but that's what we're working on. AI is not yet entangled. AI is just coming in. And in two or three years, it will be entangled. And as you say, there are many good applications.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Khan Academy uses AI very well. And if we could have a device that just did Khan Academy and nothing else, that I can see would have a positive impact on education. Maybe we don't have to throw out all the iPads from the schools. Maybe we could use them if we can reduce them to one function.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Khan Academy uses AI very well. And if we could have a device that just did Khan Academy and nothing else, that I can see would have a positive impact on education. Maybe we don't have to throw out all the iPads from the schools. Maybe we could use them if we can reduce them to one function.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Oh, yes. Yeah, that's right. It does. I mean, you know, kids are losing the ability to draw, to write. These technologies, so far, Silicon Valley has a horrible track record at living up to its promises, especially for kids. So social media is going to connect everyone. No, it actually disconnected everyone.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Oh, yes. Yeah, that's right. It does. I mean, you know, kids are losing the ability to draw, to write. These technologies, so far, Silicon Valley has a horrible track record at living up to its promises, especially for kids. So social media is going to connect everyone. No, it actually disconnected everyone.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

So when the purveyors of AI say, oh, there's all these amazing uses, and AI, there clearly will, and there already are. I'm finding that Claude and ChatGPT are just really helpful adjuncts to research. So I love AI as an adult. But we have to understand children are not adults. And given the track record so far, we have to assume that these AI companions will be very bad for our children.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

So when the purveyors of AI say, oh, there's all these amazing uses, and AI, there clearly will, and there already are. I'm finding that Claude and ChatGPT are just really helpful adjuncts to research. So I love AI as an adult. But we have to understand children are not adults. And given the track record so far, we have to assume that these AI companions will be very bad for our children.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

That's what the Silicon Valley people themselves say in the sense that they have already voted to keep their kids away from social media and technology. They send their kids to the Waldorf school. So we have to approach all of this with a really skeptical eye, especially for our children. Start by assuming it's harming your kids, and then you can bring in some uses where it's not.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

That's what the Silicon Valley people themselves say in the sense that they have already voted to keep their kids away from social media and technology. They send their kids to the Waldorf school. So we have to approach all of this with a really skeptical eye, especially for our children. Start by assuming it's harming your kids, and then you can bring in some uses where it's not.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

So the way I think about it is that I often hear the argument, well, you know, this is the world the kids are in and for them to be successful, they need to master the technology and it's going to be in the workplace. And my answer is very simple. I'm teaching these kids. If you want to send me someone who's going to do well at NYU Stern, don't send me someone who has mastered Instagram.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

So the way I think about it is that I often hear the argument, well, you know, this is the world the kids are in and for them to be successful, they need to master the technology and it's going to be in the workplace. And my answer is very simple. I'm teaching these kids. If you want to send me someone who's going to do well at NYU Stern, don't send me someone who has mastered Instagram.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Send me someone who is homeschooled, never had any of this garbage. They're able to pay attention. They're able to read a book. They're, you know, in a sense, our brains are LLMs in a sense. And so don't send me kids whose LLMs were filled in by TikTok. Send me a kid whose LLM was figured in within a stable moral community.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

Send me someone who is homeschooled, never had any of this garbage. They're able to pay attention. They're able to read a book. They're, you know, in a sense, our brains are LLMs in a sense. And so don't send me kids whose LLMs were filled in by TikTok. Send me a kid whose LLM was figured in within a stable moral community.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And that kid is going to be adapted for the future because he didn't have the current technology when he was growing up. The current technology is a giant obstacle to human development. And so if you want to prepare your kid for the future, think very carefully about the technology you immerse him in.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And that kid is going to be adapted for the future because he didn't have the current technology when he was growing up. The current technology is a giant obstacle to human development. And so if you want to prepare your kid for the future, think very carefully about the technology you immerse him in.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

mental health, but probably a lot of other things. I would never say that as a blanket rule. We don't have to raise our kids the way hunter-gatherers did. There are many aspects of modern life that are improvements. So I would not endorse a blind sort of, you know, well, this is the way it used to be, so this is what we should do. But when we begin to see evidence...

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

mental health, but probably a lot of other things. I would never say that as a blanket rule. We don't have to raise our kids the way hunter-gatherers did. There are many aspects of modern life that are improvements. So I would not endorse a blind sort of, you know, well, this is the way it used to be, so this is what we should do. But when we begin to see evidence...

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And it's just kind of obvious. What do you think? Do you think kids should be raised around other kids or around screens? Like, it's just kind of obvious. So, yes, I've always studied morality, but I've always done it from multiple perspectives. I've always been a developmental psychologist, a social psychologist, an evolutionary psychologist. I read anthropology.

The Ezra Klein Show
‘Our Kids Are the Least Flourishing Generation We Know Of’

And it's just kind of obvious. What do you think? Do you think kids should be raised around other kids or around screens? Like, it's just kind of obvious. So, yes, I've always studied morality, but I've always done it from multiple perspectives. I've always been a developmental psychologist, a social psychologist, an evolutionary psychologist. I read anthropology.