Judith Moritz

And there has been some very good behaviour also identified, I should say.

But ultimately, what we're hearing, what we're seeing in the report is that there would be meetings, there'd be conversations, there'd be discussions between people working for those services who'd come into contact with him.

But it was always, well, it's not for this agency.

Everybody was looking to somebody else to pick up the issue.

And ultimately, he fell through the cracks.

Yeah, I think that's true.

And I remember being at the inquiry when they gave evidence, which was not something we were expecting until pretty much the last minute, actually.

His brother was legally represented at the inquiry, but...

but they weren't.

And they were the last witnesses to give evidence.

And it was extraordinary.

It was extraordinary to listen to.

I mean, some of what they said, you know, his father saying the love that he had for his son overrode his good judgment, that he had no authority as a father, that he felt he had no power at all to stop him accessing this horrific material online.

And, you know,

You may remember the photographs of that house that the police released, which the sitting room was chaotic and weaponry all over the place that the parents hadn't sounded the alarm.

Now, I'm saying I found that extraordinary.

But bear in mind that also listening to that evidence at the inquiry were the parents of the children who were who were murdered and who died.

were injured and the adult survivors.

And for them to hear that, I mean, that really was very unusual.

They said afterwards, they made public statements and talked about the fact that they felt those parents should be held to account.