Julia Dhar

You say, oh, the world suddenly feels very unstable.

But I kind of love it as a way of saying that people can still surprise you, that all kinds of things could happen in a relationship that feels extremely stable or extremely concrete, that actually we –

could continue to have new things happen in this relationship.

And that every time I encourage people to do this, go out and look for the unexpected reaction in your close friends, romantic partners, colleagues that you work with.

I think it's actually a very fun thing when you say to yourself, did not expect Gemma to say that.

Yeah, there we go.

Okay, let's talk about your book.

Can we talk about it?

Please, I would be delighted.

From my bookshelf over yonder.

Okay.

I was going to say I was going to explain it, but that's not my book, so you have to explain it for me and tell us about it.

Let me start by talking about why we wrote it, which was pretty much the same motivation for all of the work you do, which is...

A lot of our efforts to change in large organizations, even small teams, or if you're a solo entrepreneur, are not very successful.

We're actually disappointing much more often than we succeed.

But there is a science to success as well, which is what we put together in the book, that groups of people can do big things together really well.

And from the world of airlines, fashion, food and beverages, from restaurant kitchens and factories all

We tell all of these stories about people who have successfully experimented with the science of change and brought it into their own lives and into the work that they do.

And what we're trying to do is create a bit of a challenge to our kind of very standard model in a lot of workplaces where a change is coming and we basically say to people, shut up and change.

And instead, invite people to be part of the conditions where they can change successfully.