Julia Shaw

And I found it so interesting.

And I loved Stephen Hart as a person.

And he seemed to have a sense of humor, this gallows humor around it all, despite being faced with one of the arguably worst people in Canadian history.

And I thought that that was so interesting that someone could be so nice and so kind and so wonderful and be an expert witness for these kinds of people.

And so that's one of the reasons I went into the field is because of this case as well.

And so we had him on the show.

So he came on to the bad people and we interviewed him for it.

Yes, he's done a lot of difficult cases, as have other researchers like Elizabeth Loftus, who's one of the main founders of the area of false memory research, which is what I also do.

I do research on memory and false memory and witness statements.

And Elizabeth Loftus has also been recently asked for the Ghislaine Maxwell case.

She was in the press.

And so she has worked with lawyers to educate the court on memory.

in lots of really, really controversial cases.

But the way she would explain it is that it's still her role to just train people and teach people on how memory works.

She's not there to decide whether people are guilty or innocent, but she is there to help people distinguish between fact and fiction when it comes to how our memories work or don't.

The psychology about Robert Pickton, I mean, he was a tricky person because I think he was profoundly lonely.

And this is something we see with a lot of serial killers is that they have this loneliness, which I think also not only contributes to them committing the crimes in the first place, but also allows them to get away with things because they don't have as much of a social network or any social network that is helping them to do what's called reality monitoring.

to understand what's true and what's not.

And so when you see people get radicalized in their own thoughts, whether that's in the sense of things like schizophrenia, where you've got psychosis, you've got delusions, maybe command hallucinations, that's when you think you're hearing voices,

And someone is telling you that you have to do something, usually something harmful to other people.