Karen Stark

And his assistant, she was his sponsor.

She was his minder, as you said, Nancy.

So she was there.

She could not stop him from taking something, but certainly was trying.

That was her role to make sure that he was on the straight and narrow path.

and sticking to his determination to stop.

And he was very open about it, but he really did want to stop taking drugs recreationally.

Karen, it's used as a club drug.

It started years ago, Nancy, but it's continuing.

People do use it recreationally.

She's exactly right.

There are a lot of trials going on where they are psychedelics to stop addiction, just the opposite of what we have here, and for depression.

And that has to be a trial because it's not FDA approved.

Tremendous amount of denial, Nancy, because they really are struggling in most cases to be clean.

They don't want to be addicted, but they're very, very susceptible.

And when you think about somebody who's famous like that, there are always people around who are willing to oblige them with drugs.

and tempt them with drugs because they want to make them happy.

They want to be around a celebrity.

It's something that happens all the time.

So I am sure he was trying, but obviously not succeeding or that ketamine would not have been there.