Katja Adler

the re-election of Donald Trump marks what's perhaps the most uncertain moment in the history of the NATO military alliance. Well, that is, since the last time he was president. But that was before large-scale warfare returned to Europe with Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, aided militarily and otherwise by North Korea, Iran and China.

the re-election of Donald Trump marks what's perhaps the most uncertain moment in the history of the NATO military alliance. Well, that is, since the last time he was president. But that was before large-scale warfare returned to Europe with Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, aided militarily and otherwise by North Korea, Iran and China.

NATO is a transatlantic military alliance and it's largely funded by the United States. But America first Donald Trump thinks it's a very bad deal.

NATO is a transatlantic military alliance and it's largely funded by the United States. But America first Donald Trump thinks it's a very bad deal.

With Ukraine on the back foot against Moscow and European security in jeopardy, NATO has got a new chief, Mark Rutter, who's been dubbed the Trump whisperer. In his first major speech in his new job, he's called for NATO members to switch to a wartime mindset and seriously boost defence spending. Can he save NATO by persuading the incoming US president to stay on board?

With Ukraine on the back foot against Moscow and European security in jeopardy, NATO has got a new chief, Mark Rutter, who's been dubbed the Trump whisperer. In his first major speech in his new job, he's called for NATO members to switch to a wartime mindset and seriously boost defence spending. Can he save NATO by persuading the incoming US president to stay on board?

With me today is the BBC's defence correspondent, Jonathan Beale. Hi, Jonathan.

With me today is the BBC's defence correspondent, Jonathan Beale. Hi, Jonathan.

Jonathan, where you are in Ukraine, I mean, it's a very, very tense situation. I mean, we're talking about survival here. So are people paying attention to a new Secretary General of NATO or a speech he might choose to give?

Jonathan, where you are in Ukraine, I mean, it's a very, very tense situation. I mean, we're talking about survival here. So are people paying attention to a new Secretary General of NATO or a speech he might choose to give?

Yes, because there's a lot of talk right now, isn't there, about possible ceasefires. We'll talk about Donald Trump returning to the White House in a minute and what that could mean. And Ukraine is insisting on security guarantees. It believes that comes from NATO. I mean, Jonathan, just tell us a little bit, a potted history about NATO. It was born after the Second World War, wasn't it?

Yes, because there's a lot of talk right now, isn't there, about possible ceasefires. We'll talk about Donald Trump returning to the White House in a minute and what that could mean. And Ukraine is insisting on security guarantees. It believes that comes from NATO. I mean, Jonathan, just tell us a little bit, a potted history about NATO. It was born after the Second World War, wasn't it?

And I mean, when we talk about the allies, I mean, it's a transatlantic military alliance, mainly European, but we have Canada and, of course, the United States, which, and we'll get to this in a moment, of course, foots most of the bill.

And I mean, when we talk about the allies, I mean, it's a transatlantic military alliance, mainly European, but we have Canada and, of course, the United States, which, and we'll get to this in a moment, of course, foots most of the bill.

And you say it's a defence alliance. That's why there's this quite a complicated dance that us journalists have to make, isn't there, Jonathan, that when we say NATO is providing military support to Ukraine, that would be incorrect. It's NATO member states providing support. NATO itself can't do that directly.

And you say it's a defence alliance. That's why there's this quite a complicated dance that us journalists have to make, isn't there, Jonathan, that when we say NATO is providing military support to Ukraine, that would be incorrect. It's NATO member states providing support. NATO itself can't do that directly.

And if we listen, though, to Vladimir Putin, he does not see NATO as a defensive alliance. He sees it as an offensive alliance and says there's been steady creep towards the east, towards Russia. And that's why he was forced to take action in Ukraine.

And if we listen, though, to Vladimir Putin, he does not see NATO as a defensive alliance. He sees it as an offensive alliance and says there's been steady creep towards the east, towards Russia. And that's why he was forced to take action in Ukraine.

Sometimes with information warfare going on also all around Europe, you do feel a certain sympathy for that argument in parts of Europe. I mean, in parts of Italy, I've come across it. In Germany, I've come across it.

Sometimes with information warfare going on also all around Europe, you do feel a certain sympathy for that argument in parts of Europe. I mean, in parts of Italy, I've come across it. In Germany, I've come across it.