Ken Foy

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This is really the first time that Kinahan, there's been a deep dive into Kinahan from the point of view of his links to organised crime and his position in boxing.

That's happened really outside Ireland.

We've done a lot of the reporting, a lot of the legwork here.

But the BBC Panorama show is going to give a big punch to him, really.

Now, we're going to go on to hear more of this conversation and to discuss really the background to it occurring and what's going on in Planet Daniel at this point, because as this series is called, The King of Spin, he is running a propaganda campaign in the background.

And we're really going to sort of pull apart exactly how he's doing this and how he is trying to use and manipulate the media.

Now, before we go any further, and we will be going back to sort of the beginning of this campaign in order to show, you know, where he's at.

The conversation you've had with him is, you're on the phone to him for 35 minutes.

You weren't necessarily expecting, but we'll talk about that.

It gives us the chance to hear Kinahan's voice after all these years, but it also gives us this rare glimpse into his psyche and, you know, where he's at.

Now, we're going to just play another clip of Daniel Kinahan and then we'll come back to how this conversation exactly came about.

OK, so he doesn't take anything personal, but it is a witch hunt.

You know, you go back to those comments from him.

So I suppose tell us exactly how this conversation came about.

Were you surprised getting him on the phone?

And, you know, how long had you been sort of covering the Kinnahans at this point?

We of course had Operation Shovel in 2010.

That's what I was about to say.

How did this conversation come about and how did you, like, were you surprised to get him on the phone?