Konstantin Kisin

And again, reading between the lines of what you're saying, it sounds to me like your view, and of course, there'll be historians who disagree on this, but your view, I guess, is it was the right war to fight.

It was just fought in the wrong way.

Is that fair?

By the way, I honestly didn't know that was going to be your perspective.

You were recommended to us by a friend and really interested in your thoughts on it.

It's an interesting perspective.

It's one I have heard from other people.

As you say, it is very toxic and I imagine,

That is partly because, well, look, it might not be true.

There'll be people who say it's not true, but also I think because of just how powerful the Hollywood narrative that was created after the war was.

And I'm not saying that narrative is false.

I'm not qualified to assess whether it's true or false.

What I'm saying is even as someone who's not American, who wasn't brought up in America,

If I had to tell you what the story of the Vietnam War was, it would be, you know, Platoon.

It would be, what's the one with Tom Cruise?

Born on the 4th of July.

Right, yes.

Like, those are not positive war movies.

You're not looking at that going, we're the good guys here, and this was the right war to fight.

which i was going to ask you about that because do you think the the vietnam war and the portrayal of it rightly or wrongly in the media in hollywood among you know a lot of people in the country as well it's the template onto which the failure of afghanistan and the failure of iraq fit very nicely because you know i hinted at this when we right at the beginning of our conversation