Leah Rose

Let's hear some of that.

Let's hear some of that.

That's star Pushkin producer and sometimes host of The Last Archive, Ben Nadif Hafri.

That's star Pushkin producer and sometimes host of The Last Archive, Ben Nadif Hafri.

Me too.

Me too.

To be honest, I also think that sad songs might make the best love songs. But the real reason I wanted to talk to Ben is because I learned at our holiday party that he also has a second life as a musician and as a songwriter with the band Rukin.

To be honest, I also think that sad songs might make the best love songs. But the real reason I wanted to talk to Ben is because I learned at our holiday party that he also has a second life as a musician and as a songwriter with the band Rukin.

So this is our Valentine's Day special, and I was tipped off by our producer, Izzy, about a love song that you wrote a couple years ago, and it actually ended up having sort of like a big impact on your life. So I wanted to ask you about this song, If I Didn't Know You By Now. So set the stage for us. How did this song come to be?

So this is our Valentine's Day special, and I was tipped off by our producer, Izzy, about a love song that you wrote a couple years ago, and it actually ended up having sort of like a big impact on your life. So I wanted to ask you about this song, If I Didn't Know You By Now. So set the stage for us. How did this song come to be?

The growing up process is a slow one.

The growing up process is a slow one.

At what point did you realize, I'm writing a love song for Julia?

At what point did you realize, I'm writing a love song for Julia?

Do you have a favorite part of the song?

Do you have a favorite part of the song?

Such a beautiful song. Again, that's If I Didn't Know You By Now by Rukin. I'm not sure if Ben's going to convince Justin that folk is the best genre for love songs. But in a minute, Malcolm Gladwell weighs in, and he gets us thinking about this question in an entirely different way.

Such a beautiful song. Again, that's If I Didn't Know You By Now by Rukin. I'm not sure if Ben's going to convince Justin that folk is the best genre for love songs. But in a minute, Malcolm Gladwell weighs in, and he gets us thinking about this question in an entirely different way.

I think it's so funny. I mean, you know that I love a sad song over a happy song, and I'll take a depressed, unrequited love song over a happy over-the-moon love song any day.

I think it's so funny. I mean, you know that I love a sad song over a happy song, and I'll take a depressed, unrequited love song over a happy over-the-moon love song any day.