Leslie Kean

Yeah, I think that's important because he struggled with his humanity, and again, he had disagreements with other people in this field. The big question, as he learned more and more about it, was were these things happening in a reality that we can recognize, or were they happening in some other reality That we can't access.

Yeah, I think that's important because he struggled with his humanity, and again, he had disagreements with other people in this field. The big question, as he learned more and more about it, was were these things happening in a reality that we can recognize, or were they happening in some other reality That we can't access.

Yeah, I think that's important because he struggled with his humanity, and again, he had disagreements with other people in this field. The big question, as he learned more and more about it, was were these things happening in a reality that we can recognize, or were they happening in some other reality That we can't access.

And he eventually had a kind of a break with Bud Hopkins and Dave Jacobs, who said, oh, these things are real. These things are happening in everyday reality. People are really getting abducted. And the more Mac looked into it. The more he said, you know, I don't know if these things, I mean, we don't see people getting abducted on the street, you know.

And he eventually had a kind of a break with Bud Hopkins and Dave Jacobs, who said, oh, these things are real. These things are happening in everyday reality. People are really getting abducted. And the more Mac looked into it. The more he said, you know, I don't know if these things, I mean, we don't see people getting abducted on the street, you know.

And he eventually had a kind of a break with Bud Hopkins and Dave Jacobs, who said, oh, these things are real. These things are happening in everyday reality. People are really getting abducted. And the more Mac looked into it. The more he said, you know, I don't know if these things, I mean, we don't see people getting abducted on the street, you know.

I mean, so maybe it's happening in some other reality that we don't understand. So he was equivocal on that. And I thought that was interesting. He was really troubled himself. as to where this was happening. How could this be? And he was as confused as anyone. It's not like he was certain. That's the thing. He was not an ideologue. He was not a... propagandist.

I mean, so maybe it's happening in some other reality that we don't understand. So he was equivocal on that. And I thought that was interesting. He was really troubled himself. as to where this was happening. How could this be? And he was as confused as anyone. It's not like he was certain. That's the thing. He was not an ideologue. He was not a... propagandist.

I mean, so maybe it's happening in some other reality that we don't understand. So he was equivocal on that. And I thought that was interesting. He was really troubled himself. as to where this was happening. How could this be? And he was as confused as anyone. It's not like he was certain. That's the thing. He was not an ideologue. He was not a... propagandist.

He was troubled, but he was honest enough to admit what he had come across from these accounts from ordinary people telling the most detailed accounts. And by the way, when he would put them in a light stage of hypnosis. and hear their accounts. They were terrified, these people, and that was very convincing to him. He was a psychiatrist.

He was troubled, but he was honest enough to admit what he had come across from these accounts from ordinary people telling the most detailed accounts. And by the way, when he would put them in a light stage of hypnosis. and hear their accounts. They were terrified, these people, and that was very convincing to him. He was a psychiatrist.

He was troubled, but he was honest enough to admit what he had come across from these accounts from ordinary people telling the most detailed accounts. And by the way, when he would put them in a light stage of hypnosis. and hear their accounts. They were terrified, these people, and that was very convincing to him. He was a psychiatrist.

He knew when people were faking, but when these people would recount their abduction, oh, they're sticking the needle in, oh, my God, they're doing this, they're doing that, he... realized that they weren't making it up. Whatever had happened to these people was real to them and seemed to be real.

He knew when people were faking, but when these people would recount their abduction, oh, they're sticking the needle in, oh, my God, they're doing this, they're doing that, he... realized that they weren't making it up. Whatever had happened to these people was real to them and seemed to be real.

He knew when people were faking, but when these people would recount their abduction, oh, they're sticking the needle in, oh, my God, they're doing this, they're doing that, he... realized that they weren't making it up. Whatever had happened to these people was real to them and seemed to be real.

He examined and rejected all the other explanations that they were fabricating, they were making it up, they were confused. These were people with a strong sense of reality. He checked them all out. They weren't harboring other trauma that they were transferring into abduction. He heard all these – and by the way, you pushed my button here.

He examined and rejected all the other explanations that they were fabricating, they were making it up, they were confused. These were people with a strong sense of reality. He checked them all out. They weren't harboring other trauma that they were transferring into abduction. He heard all these – and by the way, you pushed my button here.

He examined and rejected all the other explanations that they were fabricating, they were making it up, they were confused. These were people with a strong sense of reality. He checked them all out. They weren't harboring other trauma that they were transferring into abduction. He heard all these – and by the way, you pushed my button here.

I'm going to say that the so-called skeptics, the debunkers who – are ready to ridicule Mack and others and say, oh, it's clear that this is, you know, these people are fabricating or they're hiding a sexual trauma. They do not know what they're talking about. Mack looked at all these other explanations. and they don't fit. That's the problem.

I'm going to say that the so-called skeptics, the debunkers who – are ready to ridicule Mack and others and say, oh, it's clear that this is, you know, these people are fabricating or they're hiding a sexual trauma. They do not know what they're talking about. Mack looked at all these other explanations. and they don't fit. That's the problem.