Liam Rosenior

That's because the society that they've grown up in has given them cause to believe that.

And we need to change that.

I think UEFA and FIFA are the biggest part because they are our governing bodies and I think diversity is crucial.

I think they need to open up.

What diversity brings, it's not having black and white people or anyone from any other ethnic minority in a role for

no particular reason other to fulfill a quota, is to make sure that we have people from all different points of view and all different perspectives who empathize and understand with different types of people that we have all over the world in our game.

So having diversity in authority, having diversity on boardrooms allows us to make more considered and rational decisions and actually move the game forward.

So it's having it's including everybody in the conversation.

And your point about individuals is 100 percent right.

You know, I've had unbelievable conversations with players at Derby this week about the subject of race.

They're asking me what it's like to be.

These are the types of conversations that are absolutely fantastic for our society.

Hopefully we can be more open and not so fearful of saying the wrong thing, because there's no such thing as a stupid question in my eyes.

No, you make a really good point, Jamie, especially on your point about racial abuse on the pitch.

I'm an old man now in football in terms of the tide and I was playing for England under 21, you know, maybe 15 years ago now and against Serbia and the same thing happened then.

So that in terms of that, there's no real change.

But I think what's actually more crucial and more important than even the overt racism that's in your face is

When Raheem Sterling gets racially abused or England players get racially abused when they play away from home, there's a deeper lying root of racism.

And that's what the foundation of the Black Lives Matter movement is.

And it's unconscious bias and it's covert racism.