Matt Carthy

So rather than recognising the scale of the crisis, government have actually, in fact, made things worse.

John, when the second package was announced, your senior ministers were supposed to be in Canada.

There was no intention that that was the intention at the outset.

You moved because of public and political pressure.

I'm glad you moved.

I wish you had moved sufficiently far enough because... What is sufficient in Sinn Féin's eyes?

Well, if

if you then have outlined quite a number of packages that would cost in the region of €100 million per month, and we have said that very clearly, that that's what's required on top of what... We've actually committed more than that, David.

They seem to be working... Because when you introduce your budget, you introduce a €9 billion...

euro package.

The problem was that none of that actually went to ordinary workers and families.

It went to developers, it went to banks, it went to speculators at a time when people were still grappling with a cost of living crisis that has only actually got worse.

This is all about political choices.

So, yes, we have a progressive income tax system, but there's no progressivity in relation to property tax, in relation to road tax, in relation to excise, in relation to...

And we also get less in return for the property tax.

In fact, in most local authorities, we have less services now because they're under more financial strain than when local property tax was introduced.

The truth of the matter is that many people who I represent have no choice but to use their car.

It's not progressive to continually increase the taxes that are being charged on motor fuel.

It's just simply making people's lives harder.

And if you have a situation whereby you direct...