Michael Barbaro (host)

When you talk about Cuomo, you found distasteful, which is, you know, you're dealing with a Democratic governor who isn't on the same page with you.

And that's an immediate kind of like old versus new.

DSA, Mamdani.

Then there's the Jewish community.

as we kind of tick through the folks that you have been meeting with, and you end up in rooms where people have been challenging you directly, sometimes emotionally, is my sense.

I'm thinking about Dr. Albert Bourla, CEO of Pfizer.

Our colleagues reported on your conversation with him.

He's the son of Holocaust survivors, and he pleads with you to stop calling what's been happening in Gaza up until now.

There's now a ceasefire, a genocide, which is what you call it.

And he pushed for you to condemn this phrase, globalizing the Intifada, because in his mind, it raises a specter of violence against Jews.

My sense is that in these conversations, you've given some ground on things like globalizing the Intifada, not on genocide.

And I wonder what you've come to understand about the perspective of people like Dr. Bourla.

and Jews in general in New York who are, in the same way perhaps that police were grappling with what you were saying about them, grappling with the way you talk about Israel.

Whether it be a caricature... What was that caricature, do you think?

I saw some of those mailers.

They were...

Some of them were rather vivid.

So that you were more menacingly something.

One of your critiques of the Democratic Party, and it feels worth mentioning this here, is PEP.

progressive except for Palestinians.