Michael Pollan

This episode of The Ezra Klein Show is produced by Kristen Lin.

Fact-checking by Kim Frieda.

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Consciousness is under siege.

I think that it's the last frontier for some of these companies that want to sell our time.

And of course, our time is our mind time.

Thank you, Terry.

It's very good to be back.

Yeah.

So anybody who uses psychedelics, I think, sooner or later starts thinking about consciousness.

I mean, I had thought about it at another point in my life, but for most of my life, I kind of went through it regarding consciousness as just kind of the water we swim in, you know, totally transparent.

But when I did these experiments with psychedelics for how to change your mind, something interesting shifted.

Psychedelics have a way of kind of smudging the windshield through which we normally see reality.

And suddenly we notice change.

wow, there is a windshield.