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Mikey Shulman

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
471 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

Imagine it were just only the free tier or everything were totally free. When you hit the end of your free tier, I don't know why. I don't know if you wanted to continue or didn't want to continue. I don't know how to pick out the users that I want to interview that found this really valuable or not really valuable. Like I'm kind of lost in the desert a little bit.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

Imagine it were just only the free tier or everything were totally free. When you hit the end of your free tier, I don't know why. I don't know if you wanted to continue or didn't want to continue. I don't know how to pick out the users that I want to interview that found this really valuable or not really valuable. Like I'm kind of lost in the desert a little bit.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

Imagine it were just only the free tier or everything were totally free. When you hit the end of your free tier, I don't know why. I don't know if you wanted to continue or didn't want to continue. I don't know how to pick out the users that I want to interview that found this really valuable or not really valuable. Like I'm kind of lost in the desert a little bit.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

And if you have it and you can say, okay, these are the people who subscribed. These are the people who subscribed before they even hit the paywall. Let's go talk to them. Let's figure out like, what was that magical moment they had? Or these were the people that hit the paywall and didn't subscribe. Let's go talk to them. Let's figure out why we didn't wow them.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

And if you have it and you can say, okay, these are the people who subscribed. These are the people who subscribed before they even hit the paywall. Let's go talk to them. Let's figure out like, what was that magical moment they had? Or these were the people that hit the paywall and didn't subscribe. Let's go talk to them. Let's figure out why we didn't wow them.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

And if you have it and you can say, okay, these are the people who subscribed. These are the people who subscribed before they even hit the paywall. Let's go talk to them. Let's figure out like, what was that magical moment they had? Or these were the people that hit the paywall and didn't subscribe. Let's go talk to them. Let's figure out why we didn't wow them.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

Sure, maybe we would be a little bit bigger, but we would also have, I think, a worse product if we hadn't had that data at our hands.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

Sure, maybe we would be a little bit bigger, but we would also have, I think, a worse product if we hadn't had that data at our hands.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

Sure, maybe we would be a little bit bigger, but we would also have, I think, a worse product if we hadn't had that data at our hands.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

It's the biggest thing by far. It's a few times payroll. We also have a big research cluster that these technologies didn't exist when we started the company, and research is still a huge part of what we do. How do you anticipate that changing moving forwards? I don't. I hope GPU prices come down, but we'll probably just get more.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

It's the biggest thing by far. It's a few times payroll. We also have a big research cluster that these technologies didn't exist when we started the company, and research is still a huge part of what we do. How do you anticipate that changing moving forwards? I don't. I hope GPU prices come down, but we'll probably just get more.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

It's the biggest thing by far. It's a few times payroll. We also have a big research cluster that these technologies didn't exist when we started the company, and research is still a huge part of what we do. How do you anticipate that changing moving forwards? I don't. I hope GPU prices come down, but we'll probably just get more.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

No, you know, you need to run high quality experiments. And so the machine learning team at Suno will almost certainly not scale as quickly as a software team. Or said differently, research is not something that you can solve with scale. You can just throw more bodies and you'll get comparatively more results. It will be sublinear returns there.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

No, you know, you need to run high quality experiments. And so the machine learning team at Suno will almost certainly not scale as quickly as a software team. Or said differently, research is not something that you can solve with scale. You can just throw more bodies and you'll get comparatively more results. It will be sublinear returns there.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

No, you know, you need to run high quality experiments. And so the machine learning team at Suno will almost certainly not scale as quickly as a software team. Or said differently, research is not something that you can solve with scale. You can just throw more bodies and you'll get comparatively more results. It will be sublinear returns there.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

And so it's very important to really understand like, okay, I have like really talented researchers doing the problems that are going to be really important for the future of music.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

And so it's very important to really understand like, okay, I have like really talented researchers doing the problems that are going to be really important for the future of music.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

And so it's very important to really understand like, okay, I have like really talented researchers doing the problems that are going to be really important for the future of music.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

I have to be very careful what I say and don't say about a lawsuit. So yeah, we know that there are some copyrighted works in our training data. That's not illegal. It's stock standard for the industry. It's what every AI company does. In some sense, the lawsuit wasn't totally shocking. Most AI companies get sued. Everybody in music gets sued. It's a

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

I have to be very careful what I say and don't say about a lawsuit. So yeah, we know that there are some copyrighted works in our training data. That's not illegal. It's stock standard for the industry. It's what every AI company does. In some sense, the lawsuit wasn't totally shocking. Most AI companies get sued. Everybody in music gets sued. It's a