Mikki Brammer

And I did.

And then it still wasn't it.

They're like, do you want to try again?

And my heart wasn't really in it.

So I said, no, actually, I have this other idea I'd like to try.

And I am quite a quick writer.

So that is helpful.

I think that comes from journalism.

And so I did this one, Good Joy, Bad Joy, which was something I'd had in mind for, like, I didn't really want to do the two death books in a row.

But I did this one.

And I think, you know, I...

believe things happen as they should not necessarily for a reason so you know maybe I needed to have that time between the books in order for this one to come into being so I kind of trust that the journey was hard but I learned a lot from it I learned a lot about publishing and what two book deals mean and you know that can be challenging and how when a publisher does essentially own your book before you write it there are

strings that come attached to that.

You know, it's not the freedom of when I was writing Clover, I actually didn't know anything about publishing.

Your podcast was the first thing I listened to that helped me dip my toe in.

And so I wasn't really writing it

with the idea to get published because I'd never really planned on writing a book.

And then, so I think there was no pressure on me.

I was writing it just to explore my own fears essentially, and to see if I could write a book for someone like me who wouldn't read a book like that normally.

And so it's a lot different with that pressure of