Nick Ferrari

But that reform, to me, rationale doesn't stand up.

Because in May, you may recall, you and I were talking about the English local elections, the national in Scotland and Wales, and they took every single borough in and around Makerfield.

So that simply doesn't stack up for me.

That is right.

But the collapse of the Conservative vote, we also have to say the collapse of the Lib Dem vote.

So really, it was a sort of it was a two and a half horse race.

But no, you're right.

It still speaks.

to a certain sense of a certain concern within voters in the United Kingdom but I would also point you to Scotland where we also had two by-elections where the reform vote collapsed and in one instance it was just in the low thousands so poor performance it wouldn't be their hunting ground in fairness to them but having had this

I think now Mr Farage and his colleagues have been very persuasive and successful in moving that conversation on because they do point about the concerns of unlimited or unchecked migration into the country.

And we have had a series of incidents.

I won't go over them because some of them are going before the courts.

but high-profile incidents where people have been involved in high-profile crimes who we have subsequently discovered have been asylum seekers here and who arrive unchecked.

So he's tried to move the narrative on.

And I think if you remember, it wasn't that long ago, Sir Keir Starmer made a speech in which he said he thought this was becoming an island of strangers.

So it does have a resonance.

It does have an echo in what some people see as the main issue.

Now, is it as important as the economy?

Probably not.

And that is why Andy Burnham did so much better talking about growth in the economy than talking about necessarily checking the number of people arriving.