Nick Mott

And it doesn't matter if it's a big charismatic thing, you know, your whales or grizzly bears, or if it's a little tiny snail darter.

And it doesn't matter if it's a big charismatic thing, you know, your whales or grizzly bears, or if it's a little tiny snail darter.

Well, they did in the Supreme Court. But as politics happened, it was a lot more complicated than that. There was eventually a bill proposed, a big federal budget bill. And there were a couple sentences tacked on at the end by Tennessee's congressional delegation that basically just said the dam will be built no matter the law. And so the dam, it exists today, despite the Supreme Court.

Well, they did in the Supreme Court. But as politics happened, it was a lot more complicated than that. There was eventually a bill proposed, a big federal budget bill. And there were a couple sentences tacked on at the end by Tennessee's congressional delegation that basically just said the dam will be built no matter the law. And so the dam, it exists today, despite the Supreme Court.

Well, they did in the Supreme Court. But as politics happened, it was a lot more complicated than that. There was eventually a bill proposed, a big federal budget bill. And there were a couple sentences tacked on at the end by Tennessee's congressional delegation that basically just said the dam will be built no matter the law. And so the dam, it exists today, despite the Supreme Court.

The snail darter doesn't exist in that river anymore. But they did end up discovering it in other places and they tried to relocate it in that whole process. So interestingly, the federal government actually said the snail darter had recovered just a year or two ago even though that dam had been built. But the dam, it did mean no more darters there in the Little Tennessee River.

The snail darter doesn't exist in that river anymore. But they did end up discovering it in other places and they tried to relocate it in that whole process. So interestingly, the federal government actually said the snail darter had recovered just a year or two ago even though that dam had been built. But the dam, it did mean no more darters there in the Little Tennessee River.

The snail darter doesn't exist in that river anymore. But they did end up discovering it in other places and they tried to relocate it in that whole process. So interestingly, the federal government actually said the snail darter had recovered just a year or two ago even though that dam had been built. But the dam, it did mean no more darters there in the Little Tennessee River.

That's exactly right. Some say that these lawsuits are using species like a tool to actually stop something else entirely. But at the same time, this is one of our most powerful environmental laws and is essentially the only environmental law that has teeth that can say you cannot do this.

That's exactly right. Some say that these lawsuits are using species like a tool to actually stop something else entirely. But at the same time, this is one of our most powerful environmental laws and is essentially the only environmental law that has teeth that can say you cannot do this.

That's exactly right. Some say that these lawsuits are using species like a tool to actually stop something else entirely. But at the same time, this is one of our most powerful environmental laws and is essentially the only environmental law that has teeth that can say you cannot do this.

Other laws like the National Environmental Policy Act are more procedural, saying you've got to check the right boxes, you've got to do the analysis, and then you can go forth. But this one says you can't do this.

Other laws like the National Environmental Policy Act are more procedural, saying you've got to check the right boxes, you've got to do the analysis, and then you can go forth. But this one says you can't do this.

Other laws like the National Environmental Policy Act are more procedural, saying you've got to check the right boxes, you've got to do the analysis, and then you can go forth. But this one says you can't do this.

I mean, there's so much to say on this. So the first thing is like back in the 1970s when the ESA got passed, there was just a lot we didn't know about ecosystems and about wildlife and about our impact on ecosystems. So like climate change, for instance, we had no idea collectively of this enormous impact we were making on the natural world.

I mean, there's so much to say on this. So the first thing is like back in the 1970s when the ESA got passed, there was just a lot we didn't know about ecosystems and about wildlife and about our impact on ecosystems. So like climate change, for instance, we had no idea collectively of this enormous impact we were making on the natural world.

I mean, there's so much to say on this. So the first thing is like back in the 1970s when the ESA got passed, there was just a lot we didn't know about ecosystems and about wildlife and about our impact on ecosystems. So like climate change, for instance, we had no idea collectively of this enormous impact we were making on the natural world.

So there's this huge mess that we really got to figure out collectively about how we can reconcile our own impact on the world and preserving ecosystems.

So there's this huge mess that we really got to figure out collectively about how we can reconcile our own impact on the world and preserving ecosystems.

So there's this huge mess that we really got to figure out collectively about how we can reconcile our own impact on the world and preserving ecosystems.