Nicole Perlroth

Now, a word of caution here. Just because the CCP can pull the trigger doesn't necessarily mean that they will. It's possible they simply want us to know they can. Here's David Barbosa, my former Times colleague whose reporting put him in the CCP's crosshairs back in 2012.

Now, a word of caution here. Just because the CCP can pull the trigger doesn't necessarily mean that they will. It's possible they simply want us to know they can. Here's David Barbosa, my former Times colleague whose reporting put him in the CCP's crosshairs back in 2012.

And here's John Holtquist again.

And here's John Holtquist again.

psychological warfare. That's what David and John are getting at. Maybe it's not the everything everywhere scenario. Maybe it's a gun to our head. Just knowing our infrastructure is held hostage to make us think twice about defending Taiwan. Now, again, you'd have to be in Xi's inner sanctum to know the end game.

psychological warfare. That's what David and John are getting at. Maybe it's not the everything everywhere scenario. Maybe it's a gun to our head. Just knowing our infrastructure is held hostage to make us think twice about defending Taiwan. Now, again, you'd have to be in Xi's inner sanctum to know the end game.

I don't actually believe China's just going to send American passenger jets colliding, at least not until we're in the throes of World War III. That's precisely the kind of attack that, if recent history is any guide, would push Americans towards a fight, not away from it.

I don't actually believe China's just going to send American passenger jets colliding, at least not until we're in the throes of World War III. That's precisely the kind of attack that, if recent history is any guide, would push Americans towards a fight, not away from it.

More likely, in my view, is a strategic blackout here, a pipeline shutdown there, an outage of air traffic control, maybe just for a few minutes or hours, maybe a day or two, just long enough to send a chilling message. Stand down or Americans will feel real pain. That's the thinking behind why Russian hackers only cut Ukraine's power for hours, not days, back in 2015 and 2016.

More likely, in my view, is a strategic blackout here, a pipeline shutdown there, an outage of air traffic control, maybe just for a few minutes or hours, maybe a day or two, just long enough to send a chilling message. Stand down or Americans will feel real pain. That's the thinking behind why Russian hackers only cut Ukraine's power for hours, not days, back in 2015 and 2016.

It was to shake their confidence, their resolve. And it didn't work there. But here, we're far more digitally dependent than Ukraine ever was. And if there's one takeaway from 2025, it's that our politics can make us an unreliable ally. China sees these cyber attacks as leverage. They watch the panic and chaos that ensued from the Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack. They also watch the U.S.

It was to shake their confidence, their resolve. And it didn't work there. But here, we're far more digitally dependent than Ukraine ever was. And if there's one takeaway from 2025, it's that our politics can make us an unreliable ally. China sees these cyber attacks as leverage. They watch the panic and chaos that ensued from the Colonial Pipeline ransomware attack. They also watch the U.S.

support for Ukraine and its more recent backpedaling. It's not clear Americans have the stomach for a drawn-out fight, especially one that hits home on American soil. Here's Jen Easterly and I discussing this point just ahead of the 2024 election, when she was still leading CISA. So we've heard a lot of different theories about these living off the land attacks on our infrastructure.

support for Ukraine and its more recent backpedaling. It's not clear Americans have the stomach for a drawn-out fight, especially one that hits home on American soil. Here's Jen Easterly and I discussing this point just ahead of the 2024 election, when she was still leading CISA. So we've heard a lot of different theories about these living off the land attacks on our infrastructure.

Dmitry Alperovitch has said he thinks it's an effort to delay military mobilization. Others have said that this is a great political lever to pull. It might make us think twice before we would support Taiwan militarily. when we know that China's inside and could shut off our gas or shut off our access to clean water.

Dmitry Alperovitch has said he thinks it's an effort to delay military mobilization. Others have said that this is a great political lever to pull. It might make us think twice before we would support Taiwan militarily. when we know that China's inside and could shut off our gas or shut off our access to clean water.

Others say watching Ukraine and the political debates about continuing funding for Ukraine. Perhaps there would be an event where we would support Taiwan But China could basically use their access to diminish the political appetite of Americans to continue to support Taiwan if, say, they couldn't get gas for more than three days.

Others say watching Ukraine and the political debates about continuing funding for Ukraine. Perhaps there would be an event where we would support Taiwan But China could basically use their access to diminish the political appetite of Americans to continue to support Taiwan if, say, they couldn't get gas for more than three days.

Some have said this is just the new era of mutually assured digital destruction. We're all in each other's business. We're all sort of holding a gun to each other's heads saying, you better think twice before you turn off access because we could turn around and do the same to you. But you're really in the nexus of this. What in your mind is their end goal?

Some have said this is just the new era of mutually assured digital destruction. We're all in each other's business. We're all sort of holding a gun to each other's heads saying, you better think twice before you turn off access because we could turn around and do the same to you. But you're really in the nexus of this. What in your mind is their end goal?