Pam Ashton

My name is Pam Ashton and I used to live at 61 Whitecliffe Road, which is next door to 63.

I was five, so in some ways I was kept away from what was going on because obviously I don't think they wanted to frighten me, but I used to spend an awful lot of time

in Shirley's house.

I can remember there was a lot of noise.

Obviously it's fragmented because I was so young, but I can remember that in those days you could lock every room door.

They used to lock the doors and I used to go out with them.

And when you come back, things will be in a different place than where it was when we'd gone out.

I can remember people being outside the house.

a number of times, and I can remember the house being on fire.

Well, this was from my mum, and she didn't say a lot, I think because she thought I was little, but she said that they were in what is classed as the front room, and there must have been a crowd of them in there, and Shirley was sitting on an ottoman.

An ottoman is like a square box.

that you would keep blankets in and things like that.

It started to rise in the air and it took four men to pull it down.

And I think that scared my mum.

Obviously, my whole family knew about the ghost next door to me.

And my cousin phoned me up and said, the podcast is coming on.

You've got to listen to the podcast.

Yeah, slightly, slightly surreal.

My mum and Kitty and all the other people down the street were just normal, working-class people.

They were a lovely family.