Pat LaLama

You cannot disparage a woman who falls for this because it is as scarring and damaging trap as physical abuse in some ways, where you don't know whether you're coming or you second guess yourself all the way along, which Sue did.

Yet she fell in and she could not.

She treaded water.

and couldn't get out.

And he knew it.

And to answer your question, he was very charming, and a lot of people thought he was very attractive in court.

He was very chiseled, nice suit.

You know, it's hard to know what was in her brain, but I can tell you about one email that I think says it all and answers your question.

So through this course of time, a couple of years that he's doing this to her, she starts showing

I got to get, like you mentioned, got to get out of this.

I can't believe you even sat at my kitchen table and told me you didn't care that you'd spent the money, ghosting her, doing all these things.

And she's like, I can't sleep.

I can't eat.

I can't think straight.

I'm so in debt.

What am I going to do?

How am I going to pay my mortgage?

Yet, Debra, through all of that, starting to see the problems, right?

And you're hoping, OK, get out, Sue.

Get out.