Pete Lunn

There are big issues about how one resources that and the rights and wrongs of who gets returned and where they get returned to and so on.

But the problem is...

that the fact that the debate goes so quickly to international protection is distorting public perception.

Now, we published something earlier this year that shows this.

So people massively misperceive the scale of immigration.

They think it's much, much bigger than it is, right?

It is big, though.

And if we keep talking like that, they will continue to... Well, hang on.

Is it or not?

David, if you could just let me speak for a second.

I haven't said it isn't.

What I'm telling you is that the research shows that people misperceive it.

They think it's bigger than it is.

I accept it's quite high.

And I accept that it's been high for a few years now, particularly post-COVID.

But it's important to understand a couple of things.

People misperceive the level of it.

They think it's higher than it is.

They misperceive the proportion of people who are asylum seekers seeking international protection compared to the people who come in for work and education.

They misperceive how many immigrants are in social housing and they misperceive how many immigrants are in the prison population.